[pols, curr ev] Action: Petition the Electoral College

[siderea]

There is a Change.com petition to be presented to the Electoral College, asking them to make Clinton president instead of Trump. The goal is 5 million signatures, and they're just shy of 4.5 million right now

Comments

[heron61]

It won't work, the House has to ratify the decision of president and the Senate has to ratify the decision of vice president. They won't pick Clinton and Kaine. OTOH, petitions for the Electors to pick less insane and dangerous Republicans (and they can pick anyone, the House and Senate can then pick from the top 3 people the Electors voted for) might work, since there's a fair amount of anti-Trump sentiment, and President Ryan, Kasich, Mcmullin, or whoever wouldn't be good, but also would not be potentially horrific.

[ron_newman]

President Romney? Not someone I would ever vote for, but at least he's reasonably sane and competent.

[sauergeek]

That's not quite correct. If the electors produce a majority vote for President and Vice President, those votes are absolute. Only if there is no majority for one or the other does the vote of the respective house come into play.

[heron61]

The House and Senate need to ratify the vote take by the Electors. This ratification is normally a formality (just like the electoral college itself). However, if the Electoral College voted for Clinton, there is no necessity that Congress accept this vote, they ultimately have the final say.

Since you're big on pragmatism

[anonymous]

That's not my read on it. A US civil war would probably wreck this phase of civilization, starting a new dark age immediately

Re: Since you're big on pragmatism

[siderea]

I believe the choices are between American civil war and WWIII. It's not that I disagree with you as to the potential/likely economics for the world of an American civil war, it's that no American shoah will be content to stay within our borders. It's not just holocaust we have to worry about inheriting from the Nazis: lebenstraum.

It looks to me like we either nip it in the bud within our borders, and, yes, this could be Bad, for world economics and, you know, civilization, or... we don't. Which I think would likely be utterly catastrophic for everyone, everywhere.

Re: Since you're big on pragmatism

[heron61]

I fear you might be correct wrt autocratic rule, loss of freedom, concentration camps, and possible civil war (due to a variety of causes), but what I don't see is anything like WWIII. The Dumpster is an isolationist who is either working with Putin or is Putin's puppet, and Putin very much wants the US off the world stage. I'm wondering why & how you think global war might happen?

Re: Since you're big on pragmatism

[siderea]

Ahahahah, line #2 in the fascist totalitarian playbook is "Start a war of expansion. It will keep everyone's attention focused, make dissent unpopular, justify martial law, and maybe provide an actual income."

P.S. Trump is not an isolationist. Trump is against America supporting allies militarily or financially. Trump is maybe against America having allies. Trump doesn't see geopolitics as a game to be played to protect some abstract, long-term notion of American interests, and he certainly has no interest in protecting or spreading abstract principles like American democracy or capitalism.

Trump just likes humiliating people and taking what's theirs for his, and feels, deeply, that might makes right. And now he has the most mighty army in the world.

Be careful what you wish for....

[hudebnik]

Given that the electors who would need to "vote their consciences" are from Republican-leaning states, and are presumably Republican themselves, they're more likely to vote for Paul Ryan than for Hillary Clinton. If enough of them do that to prevent anybody getting an electoral-college majority, the decision goes to the House of Representatives, which could very easily elect President Paul Ryan.

Who would be more competent, more predictable, classier, and less blatantly self-promoting than Donald Trump. Just an ordinary upward-redistributionist Republican President, rather than an ignorant loose cannon with anger management issues.

Re: Be careful what you wish for....

[siderea]

Honestly, that would be fine by me, given the conditions we have to work with; that won't push us towards civil war the way it going to Clinton would.

Maybe I should start a petition for that. :)

[etherial]

Things may be even more interesting than that.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/20/1601964/-I-am-one-of-those-538-National-Elector-s-and-yes-the-Electoral-College-is-in-play

[siderea]

Fascinating.

[m_danson]

We've been reading this: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11612989-the-dictator-s-handbook

[londo]

This seems like a less civil-war-encouraging action to take, and it doesn't prevent one from encouraging electors to defect: https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

[siderea]

Excellent!