Imagine

[shkrobius]

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people living for today...I do not need to imagine ALL the people living for today. I’ve seen such people both individually and en masse. They were not doing any better than the rest of us. They quickly rediscover that heaven isn't above and hell isn't

Comments

[bigsva]

"...Imagination is not a "notion" to be analyzed by some "rational" methodology, either scientific or philosophical, but is itself a peculiar thinking process. This mental process represents an inferior mode of thought and a retrogression from Adam's ability to reason. Before sinning, human language consisted of names. Language was capable of predication, but it excluded syntax and therefore transference of meaning. Without transference of meaning, imagination is inoperative. Things could neither be perceived "as" something else, nor be identified with other beings and ideas. Adam's sin consisted in displacing this mental process in favor of imagination. Human imagination is capable of making syllogisms and arguments appearing to be true [=transference of meaning]-something which the imagination of other animals cannot do...."

And that's exactly what Chine Mieville depicts in his novell "Embassytown"

[michaellogin]

Для воображения не надо никаких слов и никакого синтаксиса - что прекрасно демонстрирует нам наше бессознательное ежедневно в форме снов, комбинируя образы в произвольном порядке. В реальности, даже если ограничиться наличным, невозможно избежать конструкции "as", т.к. иначе у человека было бы столько "имён" для красного, сколько ему встретилось бы красных вещей. Тогда память становится излишней, т.к. даже уже воспринятый раньше объект мы видим в новом контексте, эрго для нас это другой объект и его надо именовать заново. Если память таки нужна (неудобно Богу читать все свои наставления Адаму заново, каждый раз, когда он его видит) - автоматически включается воображение, т.к. мы вспоминаем, воображая, а не воспринимая. Более того, как понимали уже Декарт и Кант (и что подтверждается всей современной нейрофизиологией), вообще ВСЁ есть воображение - т.е. конструктивная деятельность мозга по созданию моделей мира и воспринимающей этот мир самости-Я. Без "продуктивной силы воображения" (как назвал эту способность Кант) вообще невозможен

[shkrobius]

Angels do not imagine.

[michaellogin]

А, так это теологическое рассуждение, не имеющее отношения к науке??? Тогда - извиняюсь, я пас, как-то сразу не вкурил.

[shkrobius]

Perhaps you were carried away by your imagination...

PS: Your argument boils down to the statement that you cannot imagine not having imagination. I do not see how does that contradict Rambam. Had you had this ability, presumably you would cut off the offending limb, as this would be the only rational thing to do, http://bible.cc/matthew/5-30.htm

You can imagine pretty much anything except for living without imagination, and you are prepared to unleash any sophistry to defend precisely what drags you down. People do not react in this way unless one is suggesting them to get rid of their vice. Ramabam stepped on the sorest of toes.

Imagination is the most perfect of diabolical tools. No other tool is even necessary. You will create these tools yourself using your imaginaton.

[ext_1433207]

What causes concupiscence?

If there is one thing that must be selected for in evolution it is the urge to have sex!

--bks

[shkrobius]

There is no sin in that.

[ext_1433207]

When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most
insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are
required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and
exhausting condition continuously until death do them part.

-- George Bernard Shaw

--bks

[shkrobius]

I would not pay too much attention to the opinions of GB Shaw on the subject of marriage...

[5_1surround]

Спасибо. Крайне своевременно and right along my line.
Репост и в мемориз :-)

Blessings

[gineer]

\\Reason carves objects into parts and seeks the distinctions between the particular and the universal according to their reality and cause. Imagination is associative; it links disparate and incompatible. It combines things that in reality are separate into a single facultative body. Imagination is incapable of true abstraction. It blocks intellectual perception and distorts reality. Adam fell because he abandoned the intellectual realm in which there is only truth and falsehood to the imaginative realm, in which there is good and evil