Your attitude is appalling, which is why I try to delete nothing.
I don't like deleting things. I really don't. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes I do, but most of the time I don't. I don't like deleting stories, entries, or comments, mine or other. I don't know why but it just feels off, like I'm hiding something from the world or I'm censoring myself and others. I guess you can say I take freedom of the press pretty fucking seriously.
I have also recently gone very meta with regards to writing fan fiction, which is weird but I'm going to chalk it up to sudden bouts of maturity and my shiny new fandoms, which actually don't make sense because they can be sosososo wanky. And NaNoWriMo; who would've thought that the National Novel Writing Month would help me solidify my arguments and stances with regards to the mere existence of fan fiction, especially considering how the moderators treat fan fiction?
I was actually going to write about my shipping tendencies and how when I latch onto a particular ship I become heavily invested in it. I just find it so hard to ship more than one pairing (with all-out obsessive enthusiasm) per fandom; it's just so much more work and my head wants to explode. But I was derailed by something incredulous on deviantArt, and decided to tackle it first.
So, someone I follow (don't remember why now) started posting editorials on writing fan fiction. She noted that they were written years back, and that she used to host panels at cons about it. I thought, Hey, spiffy credentials considering how people look at fan fiction, I'll check them out! I read the first one and wasn't particularly impressed with it, and wrote a lengthy comment about where I agreed and disagreed with her.
This came around a few days after someone - Droemar - wrote a deviantArt journal entry on 5 Mistakes Young Writers Make. I read it, and wasn't too impressed until I got to bullet #5, where she basically actively discouraged writing fan fiction.
I might get some real flak for this one, but keep in mind this is merely a humble and unpublished writer’s opinion. There are also people out there who write for established canons and get paid for it, so it’s not like there’s no money in it, either. I confess of only writing one fanfiction in my life, which was for Watership Down. (Yes. You may laugh. I wasn’t brave enough to touch Adams’s characters, though; that was one small mercy.) I do not personally feel it is possible for someone to grasp what it means to establish character or world when they are writing fanfiction. Granted, it can be a good exercise or experiment, but I see people writing entire novel-length tales in a world that isn’t theirs. And getting lauded by people who love the world and its characters, and would probably settle for seeing them jump rope, as long as their hero of choice is doing it with their love interest of choice. Fandom also seems a weird, distorted beast that likes to breathe fire, where arguments break out over who is respecting canon and so on, when folks should be focusing on writing style and if stuff is even making sense without the foregone exposition. It is, in many respects, a rather illusionary and volatile environment to write in, since even if you win it’s sort of lame. No fanfiction writer, anywhere, can be better than the one who created the world in the first place, like Jordan or Tolkien or Adams. They had originality and the courage to put themselves out there. (Even Paolini’s work is better than any of his fanfiction writers. I just gagged a little.) Eventually, you’re going to have to do it too, or at least get a grasp of what means good writing. Fanfiction is not a good place to learn serious writing, how to world-build or create emotional hooks out of character, or even how to receive critique. It is, however, extremely fun to poke the fandom. Fanfiction written as satire or deconstruction would count as one of the aforementioned exercise perks to writing fanfiction. I honestly can’t say whether I want My Immortal to be a joke or a serious effort.
I'm writing a novel-length fan fiction...and discovering what happens when you make the dramatic shift from "writing with the fan fiction mindset" and "writing with the novelist mindset". I'm not shy about writing stories set in other people's worlds because that's where my passion lies at the moment; for me fan fiction is a vehicle for my writing style, a way for it to evolve. It's also been extremely useful in letting me explore the limits of research vs. writing - I always feared doing too much research compared to too little writing with my original material, but in writing fan fiction it turns out I can balance the two quite well...
P.S. She has not replied to my comments. She has replied to the ones posted after me, which is really annoying and disappointing.
Ty-Chou is the deviantArtist I mentioned previously as having written editorials and hosted panels.
Improving Fanfiction by ~Ty-Chou on deviantART
I'd copy-paste my response, in which I suggest being a tad more careful about using proper grammar when her first point is on using proper English, adding a blurb about fan fiction written in other languages, noting the distinction between the various Englishes, saying that people don't just write fan fiction for the reviews and the attention because oh my fucking god are you kidding me why are you hosting panels with that kind of fucking mentality, understanding the nature of OCs in fanworks beyond Mary Sues and Gary Stus, calling it "canon" instead of "cannon", and not calling people who can't quite grasp a character a poor writer (because believe me that is not something you want to tell an aspiring writer; I got told to go die and that my grammar was mud and that I should take up knitting instead or something other than writing because I suck, and didn't that do loads for my wishy washy teenage mentality).
The only problem? She disabled comments. They're all gone.
I. Am. So. Offended.
So, I checked her next editorial.
Fanfiction Formats by ~Ty-Chou on deviantART
1. No, writing in past tense is not "the correct way". Who are you to dictate what tense stories should be written in? You almost save yourself by adding your disapproval of inconsistent tenses, but that's a fucking given; people who give a damn try not to fuck that up.
I like using present tense. It gives a sense of immediacy that I don't get from past tense, and it lets me play a little more, lets me delve into the mindset of the POV character. It's fun, it's entertaining, it's stylistic, it's not wrong.
2. You...don't really get first person POV, do you? There is absolutely nothing wrong with dwelling in the biased head of the narrator. You are not subjugating the reader to a single set of opinions; you're subjugating the reader to a set of opinions that could be right, wrong, or somewhere in between. First person POV can be very fascinating, and is sometimes the preferred vehicle for stories.
Also,
Also, very few shows give the viewer a first person perspective from one main character. If you suddenly do that in your fanfic it can make the reader feel like they are on unfamiliar ground.
Stop doling out advice. That is not advice. That is bullshit.
3. Well firstly your English has gone off the deep end again, but I guess you were offended by my comments on your previous editorial so whatever. Secondly, script format is not for everyone, but some people like it. I'm not one of them, but who am I to judge if that's their preferred method? And good script writing is what makes the scenes you see on the screen happen.
And don't call it lazy writing.
So, more disagreements, yes? I mean, it's an editorial, so it's fair game. This is the fucking Internet, after all; you post to a public forum and people are going to read it, comment on it, agree with it, critique and criticize it, and judge you for it. And I like open dialogue, especially on this topic (because arguing the finer points of a TV show or movie characters is really not my...fishing hole, I don't know); the ideas and opinions tossed to each other can foster a better understanding of this extremely underappreciated noncommercial genre.
But here is the kicker - her artist's comments. And I'm not putting this under a cut because you have to see it to believe it.
You may have noticed I turned my comments off for these. It's been so long since I posted one of these, I totally forgot the universal rule: No one has an opinion until you post one of your own.
And I have been doing this for years. I've argued the finer points of fanfiction and read absolutely amazing fanfic editorials. I'm not interested in having intellectual pissing contests with random people who want to argue my editorials and try to prove they know more than me. I'm not saying I know more than anyone.
All I do know is that my fanfics are quite popular and people ask me to write these. If you can boast as much, then go write your own and post them in your account. Don't try to pimp yourself in my gallery.
All I want to do is help people with fanfiction. And these editorials I'm writing are as brief and as simple as I can make them so even the most basic beginner can hopefully understand them.
So if anyone wants to see a specific topic or has questions, feel free to note me. I'm happy to do what I can. I want to help. That's all.
Okay, first of all, why are you so afraid of other people's opinions? What is wrong with reading someone's comments especially when they don't always line up with your own? And what the fuck do you think this is, a private mailing list? This is the fucking Internet. You posted your editorial on public space, and you're the type of person who gets quite a lot of traffic. What did you think was going to happen?
So you claim to have been doing this for years and that you've argued the finer points of fan fiction with others while also reading amazing editorials by other people. Why are you hiding from people who want to argue the finer points? I want to argue the finer points. Why are you cutting people like me off? Did I offend you? Did you not like my tone? Did you not like what I was pointing out in your previous editorial? Maybe I'm being self-centered by assuming I'm part of the reason for it, but it still hurts.
And by saying you refuse to particulate in intellectual pissing contests with people who claim to know more than you, and then say you don't pretend to know more than other people while disabling comments so no one can have any say at all you are in effect being a hypocrite who can't handle critique.
Let's not even start on the "I'm more popular than you" game. I can't believe you'd pull that shtick and waving it around because it makes you "The Authoriteh". You are no more legitimate in your opinions than I, and resorting to saying that you're writing this because of your followers does not make you any more impressive or more respected. I remember seeing someone post a link to his/her version of the "writing/improving fan fiction" editorial in the comments at the first editorial, and while I have issues with that to I can't believe that would constitute a reason to disable comments. Is it that hard to just say "Please don't pimp your stuff in my comments?"
Lastly, you are in no way helping other people write better fan fiction. Your opinions and attitudes towards fan fiction are about as appalling as those of people who are vehemently against fan fiction (and happen to be published authors who really should know more). You allow no room for stylistic development, you shoot down people's interpretations of characters, you actively discourage people from writing, and you think that because you're popular and hosted panels for years you know more than the rest of us.
Disabling comments is the last straw. Whatever respect I had for you is now lost, gone with the wind. I am only watching you now out of a masochistic need to rage at your editorials, otherwise I'd un-watch you because honestly? Your art sucks.
And this is a random essay I wrote on fan fiction on deviantArt. These are all my opinions; feel free to agree or disagree with me, or expand on an idea, or start a conversation. This is a public forum, and people shouldn't be censored. Trolling is for another time, another day.
I have also recently gone very meta with regards to writing fan fiction, which is weird but I'm going to chalk it up to sudden bouts of maturity and my shiny new fandoms, which actually don't make sense because they can be sosososo wanky. And NaNoWriMo; who would've thought that the National Novel Writing Month would help me solidify my arguments and stances with regards to the mere existence of fan fiction, especially considering how the moderators treat fan fiction?
I was actually going to write about my shipping tendencies and how when I latch onto a particular ship I become heavily invested in it. I just find it so hard to ship more than one pairing (with all-out obsessive enthusiasm) per fandom; it's just so much more work and my head wants to explode. But I was derailed by something incredulous on deviantArt, and decided to tackle it first.
So, someone I follow (don't remember why now) started posting editorials on writing fan fiction. She noted that they were written years back, and that she used to host panels at cons about it. I thought, Hey, spiffy credentials considering how people look at fan fiction, I'll check them out! I read the first one and wasn't particularly impressed with it, and wrote a lengthy comment about where I agreed and disagreed with her.
This came around a few days after someone - Droemar - wrote a deviantArt journal entry on 5 Mistakes Young Writers Make. I read it, and wasn't too impressed until I got to bullet #5, where she basically actively discouraged writing fan fiction.
I might get some real flak for this one, but keep in mind this is merely a humble and unpublished writer’s opinion. There are also people out there who write for established canons and get paid for it, so it’s not like there’s no money in it, either. I confess of only writing one fanfiction in my life, which was for Watership Down. (Yes. You may laugh. I wasn’t brave enough to touch Adams’s characters, though; that was one small mercy.) I do not personally feel it is possible for someone to grasp what it means to establish character or world when they are writing fanfiction. Granted, it can be a good exercise or experiment, but I see people writing entire novel-length tales in a world that isn’t theirs. And getting lauded by people who love the world and its characters, and would probably settle for seeing them jump rope, as long as their hero of choice is doing it with their love interest of choice. Fandom also seems a weird, distorted beast that likes to breathe fire, where arguments break out over who is respecting canon and so on, when folks should be focusing on writing style and if stuff is even making sense without the foregone exposition. It is, in many respects, a rather illusionary and volatile environment to write in, since even if you win it’s sort of lame. No fanfiction writer, anywhere, can be better than the one who created the world in the first place, like Jordan or Tolkien or Adams. They had originality and the courage to put themselves out there. (Even Paolini’s work is better than any of his fanfiction writers. I just gagged a little.) Eventually, you’re going to have to do it too, or at least get a grasp of what means good writing. Fanfiction is not a good place to learn serious writing, how to world-build or create emotional hooks out of character, or even how to receive critique. It is, however, extremely fun to poke the fandom. Fanfiction written as satire or deconstruction would count as one of the aforementioned exercise perks to writing fanfiction. I honestly can’t say whether I want My Immortal to be a joke or a serious effort.
I'm writing a novel-length fan fiction...and discovering what happens when you make the dramatic shift from "writing with the fan fiction mindset" and "writing with the novelist mindset". I'm not shy about writing stories set in other people's worlds because that's where my passion lies at the moment; for me fan fiction is a vehicle for my writing style, a way for it to evolve. It's also been extremely useful in letting me explore the limits of research vs. writing - I always feared doing too much research compared to too little writing with my original material, but in writing fan fiction it turns out I can balance the two quite well...
P.S. She has not replied to my comments. She has replied to the ones posted after me, which is really annoying and disappointing.
Ty-Chou is the deviantArtist I mentioned previously as having written editorials and hosted panels.
Improving Fanfiction by ~Ty-Chou on deviantART
I'd copy-paste my response, in which I suggest being a tad more careful about using proper grammar when her first point is on using proper English, adding a blurb about fan fiction written in other languages, noting the distinction between the various Englishes, saying that people don't just write fan fiction for the reviews and the attention because oh my fucking god are you kidding me why are you hosting panels with that kind of fucking mentality, understanding the nature of OCs in fanworks beyond Mary Sues and Gary Stus, calling it "canon" instead of "cannon", and not calling people who can't quite grasp a character a poor writer (because believe me that is not something you want to tell an aspiring writer; I got told to go die and that my grammar was mud and that I should take up knitting instead or something other than writing because I suck, and didn't that do loads for my wishy washy teenage mentality).
The only problem? She disabled comments. They're all gone.
I. Am. So. Offended.
So, I checked her next editorial.
Fanfiction Formats by ~Ty-Chou on deviantART
1. No, writing in past tense is not "the correct way". Who are you to dictate what tense stories should be written in? You almost save yourself by adding your disapproval of inconsistent tenses, but that's a fucking given; people who give a damn try not to fuck that up.
I like using present tense. It gives a sense of immediacy that I don't get from past tense, and it lets me play a little more, lets me delve into the mindset of the POV character. It's fun, it's entertaining, it's stylistic, it's not wrong.
2. You...don't really get first person POV, do you? There is absolutely nothing wrong with dwelling in the biased head of the narrator. You are not subjugating the reader to a single set of opinions; you're subjugating the reader to a set of opinions that could be right, wrong, or somewhere in between. First person POV can be very fascinating, and is sometimes the preferred vehicle for stories.
Also,
Also, very few shows give the viewer a first person perspective from one main character. If you suddenly do that in your fanfic it can make the reader feel like they are on unfamiliar ground.
Stop doling out advice. That is not advice. That is bullshit.
3. Well firstly your English has gone off the deep end again, but I guess you were offended by my comments on your previous editorial so whatever. Secondly, script format is not for everyone, but some people like it. I'm not one of them, but who am I to judge if that's their preferred method? And good script writing is what makes the scenes you see on the screen happen.
And don't call it lazy writing.
So, more disagreements, yes? I mean, it's an editorial, so it's fair game. This is the fucking Internet, after all; you post to a public forum and people are going to read it, comment on it, agree with it, critique and criticize it, and judge you for it. And I like open dialogue, especially on this topic (because arguing the finer points of a TV show or movie characters is really not my...fishing hole, I don't know); the ideas and opinions tossed to each other can foster a better understanding of this extremely underappreciated noncommercial genre.
But here is the kicker - her artist's comments. And I'm not putting this under a cut because you have to see it to believe it.
You may have noticed I turned my comments off for these. It's been so long since I posted one of these, I totally forgot the universal rule: No one has an opinion until you post one of your own.
And I have been doing this for years. I've argued the finer points of fanfiction and read absolutely amazing fanfic editorials. I'm not interested in having intellectual pissing contests with random people who want to argue my editorials and try to prove they know more than me. I'm not saying I know more than anyone.
All I do know is that my fanfics are quite popular and people ask me to write these. If you can boast as much, then go write your own and post them in your account. Don't try to pimp yourself in my gallery.
All I want to do is help people with fanfiction. And these editorials I'm writing are as brief and as simple as I can make them so even the most basic beginner can hopefully understand them.
So if anyone wants to see a specific topic or has questions, feel free to note me. I'm happy to do what I can. I want to help. That's all.
Okay, first of all, why are you so afraid of other people's opinions? What is wrong with reading someone's comments especially when they don't always line up with your own? And what the fuck do you think this is, a private mailing list? This is the fucking Internet. You posted your editorial on public space, and you're the type of person who gets quite a lot of traffic. What did you think was going to happen?
So you claim to have been doing this for years and that you've argued the finer points of fan fiction with others while also reading amazing editorials by other people. Why are you hiding from people who want to argue the finer points? I want to argue the finer points. Why are you cutting people like me off? Did I offend you? Did you not like my tone? Did you not like what I was pointing out in your previous editorial? Maybe I'm being self-centered by assuming I'm part of the reason for it, but it still hurts.
And by saying you refuse to particulate in intellectual pissing contests with people who claim to know more than you, and then say you don't pretend to know more than other people while disabling comments so no one can have any say at all you are in effect being a hypocrite who can't handle critique.
Let's not even start on the "I'm more popular than you" game. I can't believe you'd pull that shtick and waving it around because it makes you "The Authoriteh". You are no more legitimate in your opinions than I, and resorting to saying that you're writing this because of your followers does not make you any more impressive or more respected. I remember seeing someone post a link to his/her version of the "writing/improving fan fiction" editorial in the comments at the first editorial, and while I have issues with that to I can't believe that would constitute a reason to disable comments. Is it that hard to just say "Please don't pimp your stuff in my comments?"
Lastly, you are in no way helping other people write better fan fiction. Your opinions and attitudes towards fan fiction are about as appalling as those of people who are vehemently against fan fiction (and happen to be published authors who really should know more). You allow no room for stylistic development, you shoot down people's interpretations of characters, you actively discourage people from writing, and you think that because you're popular and hosted panels for years you know more than the rest of us.
Disabling comments is the last straw. Whatever respect I had for you is now lost, gone with the wind. I am only watching you now out of a masochistic need to rage at your editorials, otherwise I'd un-watch you because honestly? Your art sucks.
And this is a random essay I wrote on fan fiction on deviantArt. These are all my opinions; feel free to agree or disagree with me, or expand on an idea, or start a conversation. This is a public forum, and people shouldn't be censored. Trolling is for another time, another day.