I was telling somebody earlier that what really struck me about Eliot's "revelation" to the CIA interrogator was the acceptance of what he'd done and his refusal to make excuses for it. He's not looking for redemption - he believes that redemption isn't possible for someone who's made the choices he's made.
Yes he's trying to make better choices now - and I think that's the cornerstone of his connection to Nate - but he still understands that "he'll never be clean of it". And I think we only see rare glimpses of him regretting that fact. He doesn't revel in it either...he just accepts that this is the way things are.
They're all so incredibly rich and deep and complex characters. It boggles me that people continue to try and cast them in a black and white, two dimensional light.
They're all so incredibly rich and deep and complex characters. It boggles me that people continue to try and cast them in a black and white, two dimensional light.
Yes, this. That's one of things that amazes me about this show. It doesn't pull punches or play to type. It allows genuine characters to emerge and play out their lives for us.
I am not capable to express myself as good as you do, but YES! I mean he said in one of the first episodes he hurts people and we've all seen TBBJ. Yes, he's done bad things, lots of them. But he's trying to do better things now.
And yep, Nate has always been a bastard. That makes him Nate, that makes him interesting.
Hah, love your comment about Parker. I think the focus on her growing relationship with Hardison has made people forget a little about the other part of Parker.
I love that the characters aren't just that fun, nice, jolly, sweet people. The all have depth, both in the sense of layers and the sense of dark sides and secrets. That's what makes me love the show.
Agree with everything. Eliot has never been made out to be a fluffy bunny, it's always been stated that he's killed people and I don't see why people are so shocked about it. Hell, I found Parker extremely violent last night when she was rescuing Hardison. And I didn't go "Oh, that's not right..." I went "Oh, that is amazing." She beat those guys up to save her guy.... People seem to be forgetting that this show is about a bunch of criminals who just happen to do good deeds. I'm sure they're all still questioning everything and having thoughts that aren't good. That's what makes it so interesting.
I don't get how, four seasons into this show, people are still shocked that Eliot is a bad man who has done bad things and Nate is a bastard. Maggie could not live with the man. If Maggie Collins can't put up with you, well …
As for Eliot, oh, let me count the ways …
• "I'm a bad guy." • "I've hurt people." • Who does Nate turn to in "Mile High" for information about how a hit would lay out, and for how the bad guys would take out somebody on a plane? • "There are nine places a professional will use to hide an injection." • "The worst thing I've ever done in my entire life I did for Damien Moreau. And I'll never be clean of that." • Damien: "Spencer, my friend, I see you haven't lost your touch." • And then Eliot takes out a small army in a warehouse, using their own guns. • Again, Damien: "You know how these things work. Or you used to."
Of course Eliot has killed people! How is that even a question?
Here's what I wrote somewhere else regarding this:
This is one of the things I love most about Eliot, and the Leverage
( ... )
I have A Lot of Feelings about this subject, but to sum up: I completely agree with you :)
My take on it is that Eliot is a murderer. And a good man. And I can understand why people might be uncomfortable with that idea, but personally I find it infinitely more interesting than the writers using a handwavy backstory as an excuse for angst without actually having the character take responsibility for his choices.
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I was telling somebody earlier that what really struck me about Eliot's "revelation" to the CIA interrogator was the acceptance of what he'd done and his refusal to make excuses for it. He's not looking for redemption - he believes that redemption isn't possible for someone who's made the choices he's made.
Yes he's trying to make better choices now - and I think that's the cornerstone of his connection to Nate - but he still understands that "he'll never be clean of it". And I think we only see rare glimpses of him regretting that fact. He doesn't revel in it either...he just accepts that this is the way things are.
They're all so incredibly rich and deep and complex characters. It boggles me that people continue to try and cast them in a black and white, two dimensional light.
Reply
Yes, this. That's one of things that amazes me about this show. It doesn't pull punches or play to type. It allows genuine characters to emerge and play out their lives for us.
Reply
I am not capable to express myself as good as you do, but YES! I mean he said in one of the first episodes he hurts people and we've all seen TBBJ. Yes, he's done bad things, lots of them. But he's trying to do better things now.
And yep, Nate has always been a bastard. That makes him Nate, that makes him interesting.
Hah, love your comment about Parker. I think the focus on her growing relationship with Hardison has made people forget a little about the other part of Parker.
I love that the characters aren't just that fun, nice, jolly, sweet people. The all have depth, both in the sense of layers and the sense of dark sides and secrets. That's what makes me love the show.
Reply
Hell, I found Parker extremely violent last night when she was rescuing Hardison. And I didn't go "Oh, that's not right..." I went "Oh, that is amazing."
She beat those guys up to save her guy....
People seem to be forgetting that this show is about a bunch of criminals who just happen to do good deeds. I'm sure they're all still questioning everything and having thoughts that aren't good. That's what makes it so interesting.
Reply
I don't get how, four seasons into this show, people are still shocked that Eliot is a bad man who has done bad things and Nate is a bastard. Maggie could not live with the man. If Maggie Collins can't put up with you, well …
As for Eliot, oh, let me count the ways …
• "I'm a bad guy."
• "I've hurt people."
• Who does Nate turn to in "Mile High" for information about how a hit would lay out, and for how the bad guys would take out somebody on a plane?
• "There are nine places a professional will use to hide an injection."
• "The worst thing I've ever done in my entire life I did for Damien Moreau. And I'll never be clean of that."
• Damien: "Spencer, my friend, I see you haven't lost your touch."
• And then Eliot takes out a small army in a warehouse, using their own guns.
• Again, Damien: "You know how these things work. Or you used to."
Of course Eliot has killed people! How is that even a question?
Here's what I wrote somewhere else regarding this:
This is one of the things I love most about Eliot, and the Leverage ( ... )
Reply
My take on it is that Eliot is a murderer. And a good man. And I can understand why people might be uncomfortable with that idea, but personally I find it infinitely more interesting than the writers using a handwavy backstory as an excuse for angst without actually having the character take responsibility for his choices.
Reply
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