LJ WORLD!

[shanks01]

I appreciate perhaps my update was badly phrased, and made it look as though I was please the guy died. This is not the case. I stand by my point though, of being please the officer in question was not charged with a murder, and also do not agree that the deceased was an 'innocent victim' in all this

Comments

[silks_ic]

I am very glad he didn't get done for murder.
I don't know enough about the situation to offer further comment only that I think our police have a very hard job to do and I thank them for doing it - especially in this day and age where the law seems to be on the side of the criminal 90% of the time

[shanks01]

Sorry, didn't mean to ignore your comments. I guess that's kind of where I'm coming from as well. I think this is one of those times u have to watch the video and decide for yourself.

The baton use was clearly wrong, but I just don't think it was as bad as it has been made out to be. But, it's hard to express an opinion like that over the net without sounding like a vicious crazy.

[life_of_tom]

If someone is a dumbass and inviting trouble, it still doesn't exonerate the person who then brings that trouble on them, does it? If I leave my wallet on a bus, and someone steals it, it's kind of my own fault, but that person is still a thief

[shanks01]

I think 'time and place and situation' need to be taken into account.

Having recently watched the video, the cop was a little overzelous in his actions, and as I have said, I think he made a mistake - but I also feel that the baton 'attack' wasn't as bad as people make out. Its not like he was beaten unconcious on the floor. Yes, I appreciate it maybe should have been used at all, but tensions were obviously high within the police as well, and the guy should have appreciated that as well.

Its a hard one that I don't think we be resolved through a LJ discussion - and will have quite the reverse effect I think!

I agree with your points, but I cannot feel sympathy for the guy being pushed (dying, thats slightly different) but I cannot agree he wasn't partly responsible for what happened.

[profaniti]

it has been reported he was struck with a baton. is the correct? If so it is different from pushing.

"I think 'time and place and situation' need to be taken into account."
He was walking home from work, through London, during a protest about something he was not involved in. Why does this support the above argument?

[shanks01]

I must admit, from the video, it doesn't look like he was exactly 'battered'.

And he walked clearly into the police line... Which a normal person would avoid, giving that it's the middle of something, it's not like it caught him unawares... And then when the police tried to move him on he is seen scuffing his feet, and making a point of not moving. He is then surprised that he is pushed out the way. The baton bash, yes, that was bad - but I also feel it has been made out to be worse than it looked. It is the push, after all, that they thought could have contributed to his death.

[hopkinssj2000]

Was going to join in argument but don't want to end up embroiled in this. Just wanted to say I think Shanks is one of the good guys and hope people remember that as context when looking at these posts. It is mostly rage at members of society being an ass and making things difficult for people trying to do their job being aired here, I think it has just come across badly. I would also say that the police are often put under extreme pressure and they are bound to make errors of judgement some of the time in these circumstances. I don't think charging the police officer would help and I guess he is probably mortified that a mistake he made in the field has resulted in a death. I do hope though that there is some sort of review of this incident that doesn't need someone to blame - it would be nice to see some resources put to trying to stop this in future rather than money into the law system to punish people who may have been just trying to do their job to the best of their ability

[shanks01]

Thanks hoppy:) phrased it better then I have been doing!

I think it's a topic we should probably leave until it can be had properly.

The net is no good way to convers.

[life_of_tom]

I should just say, if I didn't like you, I wouldn't bother to argue with you, Stu. Just so that's clear.

That said, you're WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! :)

I have say, I quite like a good written argument, myself. I've seen charismatic and persuasive people convince others to agree to utter nonsense or go along with atrocity on a depressingly regular basis. It made me think debate's actually purer in the written form, as long as no-one's taking the disagreement personally.

[shanks01]

I feel this is one of those topics that could cause personal upset though. Or dislike. Not that I think that of you of course... We've known each other far too long for that:p

My problem was I started my first post with rage from another argument... That is not the way to win friends and influence people ;)

I totally see and agree with the points all have made, but it's hard to get across, what I cAn accept is a controversial view. Hoppy summed it up best for mr really.