Four things that always kinda bugged me about Angel: the Series

[shadowscast]

Hey, so, quite recently, I finished an epic rewatch of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: the Series. I use the word "epic" because I was doing this rewatch with a friend, and it took us five years to complete. (It didn't help that during that time, he moved to Seattle for a year and I had a baby and, well, life sure does get in the way of TV-

Comments

[trepkos]

I felt that Angel's perfect happiness was when he was snuggling with Buffy just after they had sex.

Then there's the - he had a son - he seemed very happy then, for a brief period.

[shadowscast]

I felt that Angel's perfect happiness was when he was snuggling with Buffy just after they had sex.

Other commenters seem to agree with you! And now that I think about it, yes, Buffy was already asleep when he had the hotflash-of-evil.

Then there's the - he had a son - he seemed very happy then, for a brief period.

Yes, exactly! I was nervous the whole time.

[fenchurche]

Oh yeah... completely agree with you on both counts. The soul loss definitely happened in the afterglow and I always suspected it had a whole lot more to do with feeling forgiven and loved than it did with, well, the climax of the act. There have been a number of fics out there that actually point out that it should be more than possible for him to have sex with Buffy (or anyone else, for that matter) without it being a cause for perfect happiness.

And there were definitely moments after Connor was born when Angel had to have achieved that moment of perfect happiness, just looking at his son.

[rebcake]

Oh, believe me, I noticed that Angel had already done the human thing and thrown it away. Ergo, WTF?

I agree about the "whoa, deep" response to the elevator scene. Loved it. But then they didn't stick with the courage of their convictions 'til the end, or at least Angel didn't. Instead of choosing to fight the unending fight, he arranges a big blowout of a fight that will almost inevitably result in the inability to keep fighting. Tsk.

I actually like the whole happiness clause thing because I'm petty and don't really want Angel to ever have sex again. Though my favorite explanation for why it made him especially happy that one time was that he has a thing for deflowering virgins. Heh. Which he, of course, would deny.

[eilowyn]

I'm petty and don't really want Angel to ever have sex again

I totally agree. Unless Cordy's there to reign in the broodiness (and really, the girl could do better), my philosophy on Angel is best summed up by a line from The Wedding Singer. No, really:

Julia: Sometimes I think I'm meant to roam the world alone

Robbie: Like the Incredible Hulk?

Yeah, I see Angel roaming the world alone, like The Incredible Hulk. It seems perfectly in character for him, and an oddly fitting ending for his story: he roams the world for eternity, righting wrongs and fighting the good fight. and Spike gets the Shanshu and he and Buffy go off and have little slayer babies and live happily ever after. But that's just me.

[menomegirl]

It seems perfectly in character for him, and an oddly fitting ending for his story: he roams the world for eternity, righting wrongs and fighting the good fight.

*chimes in*

Oh, Angel doesn't deserve to be alone after NFA. No, what he deserves is Lindsey dogging his steps for all of eternity.

Yep.

[shadowscast]

Instead of choosing to fight the unending fight, he arranges a big blowout of a fight that will almost inevitably result in the inability to keep fighting. Tsk.

Hm, yes, that's a problem.

I always understood Anne's words to Gunn to be consistent with the planned assault on the Circle of the Black Thorn-even if you know you can't ultimately make a difference, it's still worth acting as though you can. But maybe there's an important difference: in loading the furniture onto the truck today, Anne's not preventing herself from from doing more work for the shelter tomorrow, whereas Angel has every expectation that he will die after taking out the CotBT.

[harsens_rob]

___So, the first thing that bugs me is: could Angel ever actually achieve perfect happiness during sex again, given that now he's going to have the horrible potential consequences always and forever at the back of his mind? I mean, wouldn't that knowledge automatically preclude perfect happiness, no matter who he was having sex with?___

YES. God, I've been tearing my hair out about this ever since Angel returned from Hell in BTVS: S3 -

The very thought of "If you ever make me so happy again I forget my curse that will leave me slaughtering everyone you love before I finally kill you, and I love you so!" would sort of automatically mean they you'd never be that frickin' happy again - big O-moment or not....

Errr, but then my being this upset about it, is sort of sad.

[shadowscast]

Errr, but then my being this upset about it, is sort of sad.

Haha! I'm going to claim that it's not, because I'm right there with you.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with caring about stories! And heck, what do we come to LJ for if not to talk about this stuff?

[eilowyn]

Yes to pretty much everything you said in this post. Angel is probably the most flawed of Joss' shows, and I think it's because they really didn't think things through when they were laying the groundwork for Angel's character in BtVS. At the time that they were planning a spinoff he was the only charcter around to be spun-off (if they waited a year, they could have done something with Faith, and I will forever believe that a show centered around Spike would have been the most kickass thing ever), and so they dragged the character's baggage along to the other show. Maybe if Cordy were the central figure the flaws in Angel's groundwork (not characterization, per se, but the flaws in his character background and worldbuilding around that character's history) wouldn't have been as glaring.

[shadowscast]

I would have loved to see what Joss would have done with a show about either Faith or Spike, but I don't think either of them had better groundwork laid for their characters than Angel did. If one of them had been the central character of the spinoff, I'm sure I would have simply had four different plot holes to complain about in this post! :-)

(Oh well, probably we still would've had the cyborg ninjas.)

[demoniodehiel]

With regard to the idiocy sexo=felicidad (it is a great great idiocy, only it is possible to believe if they are ... a nun? someone very young and inexpert? I wrote years ago on it in a fic. "My" Spike was saying to Angel that it could fuck with Buffy calmly. What happens is that Angel was admitting that he was not interested (I am spangel and spuffy, of course

[demoniodehiel]

Sorry

sexo=felicidad is sex=happiness

I wrote it in Spanish, sorry :/

[shadowscast]

No problem! I don't know any Spanish but I was able to figure that one out.

[shadowscast]

2X07 Darla

Oh right, I forgot about that, thanks!

I agree that Angel had no idea he could lose his soul before it happened; I'm pretty sure he didn't know about the perfect happiness clause before Jenny Calendar explained it.