Four things that always kinda bugged me about Angel: the Series

[shadowscast]

Hey, so, quite recently, I finished an epic rewatch of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: the Series. I use the word "epic" because I was doing this rewatch with a friend, and it took us five years to complete. (It didn't help that during that time, he moved to Seattle for a year and I had a baby and, well, life sure does get in the way of TV-

Comments

[moscow_watcher]

I think Joss just doesn't give a damn about factual ciontinuity as long as the story works on the emotional level.

"Continuity is for wusses". © James Marsters

http://sunnydale-la.webs.com/jamesmarsters-fanpage/conventions/gencon/

[menomegirl]

I think Joss just doesn't give a damn about factual ciontinuity as long as the story works on the emotional level.

I agree with you.

"Continuity is for wusses". © James Marsters

*blows raspberry*

Good thing he ain't a writer.

[moscow_watcher]

Good thing he ain't a writer.

I suspect Joss has influenced him a lot... :)

[menomegirl]

Obviously, LOL!

I love reading interviews and transcripts of the actors on these shows. Because it gives us insight into what they (not the writers) thought the motivations, the actions and the feelings of their characters were.

[menomegirl]

The Shanshu Prophecy

I don't believe what happened in Sunnydale is even a consideration for the apocalypse foretold in the Shanshu Prophecy for two reasons.

1.Angel was clearly evil the minute he lost his soul.

2.Whistler and the Powers That Be were caught off-guard when it happened. It was a complete surprise-therefore, the raising of Acathla cannot be the apocalypse foretold in the Shanshu Prophecy because that apocalypse is a foreseen event.

The Apocalypse

There's always one of those around the corner. :)

The Perfect Happiness

Enyos: The curse. Angel is meant to suffer, not to live as human. One moment of true happiness, of contentment, one moment where the soul that we restored no longer plagues his thoughts, and that soul is taken from him.

The curse is a troublesome thing. Taking his soul away the way they did rendered Angel into a Jeckle/Hyde persona that the writers never could write the character out of; Angel was a splintered, complex character; he could never be made whole.

[shadowscast]

I don't believe what happened in Sunnydale is even a consideration for the apocalypse foretold in the Shanshu Prophecy for two reasons.

I'm gonna try briefly to debate you on this, for the fun of it, but I acknowledge up front that the show's actual writers are almost certainly on your side!

1.Angel was clearly evil the minute he lost his soul.

True. But, first of all, he did have his soul back by the end, when Buffy stabbed him and he got sucked into Acathla, thus saving the world. His role at that point was extremely pivotal (although not so much voluntary).

More importantly, though, if we read "the vampire with the soul" as simply the moniker the author of the prophecy used for Angel, even actions Angel took while temporarily unsouled could be in fulfillment of the prophecy, since they are part of the overall arc of the "vampire with the soul".

2.Whistler and the Powers That Be were caught off-guard when it happened. It was a complete surprise-therefore, the raising of Acathla cannot be the apocalypse foretold in the Shanshu

[eowyn_315]

Just jumping in here on #2 - Whistler says they never saw Buffy coming, not that they never saw the apocalypse coming. In fact, Whistler says he figured it for Angel's big day. So it sounds like they did anticipate Acathla, but assumed Angel would be the one to stop it from happening, not bring it on. But then Buffy showed up and threw a spanner in the works, Angel lost his soul, and here we are. So I suppose you could interpret that as not knowing which side Angel would be on.

[harsens_rob]

There is another HUGE monkey-wrench in the whole Apocalypse, Which Apocalypse issue

[tyciol]

I never thought of this but yeah. Actually even if you didn't know about the curse, what exactly is 'perfect' happiness?

The thing is, regardless of whatever's in the back of your mind, it's possible that the climax just wipes his mind blank, even if for a brief instant.

[shadowscast]

it's possible that the climax just wipes his mind blank, even if for a brief instant

That's the impression I was always under, up until when he had perfectly good sex with Nina in S5 and remained ensouled. Then I was just confused.

As others have pointed out in comments here, though, it appeared onscreen that Angel lost his soul during the post-coital snuggling, rather than during the sex act itself.

[tyciol]

I suppose but I'm not sure when the exact 'moment' was there... and it wouldn't explain subsequent soul losses because you would be thinking "am I enjoying this too much? what if I snap and kill again?"

Also, how do we know how good the sex with Nina was? Maybe he faked it for her benefit? Or like... I find sometimes there are good finishes and bad finishes on occasion.

[shadowscast]

The general consensus here seems to be that Angel probably wouldn't have lost his soul again if he and Buffy had given it another try.

Though, I can see why they'd both be reluctant after what happened the first time!

[soundingsea]

Plot holes: you're soaking in them! :)

Though for my money, the entire Order Of The Guys You Play Racquetball With was the most ridiculous yet!

[shadowscast]

Order Of The Guys You Play Racquetball With

*snicker*

[shadowscast]

I'm glad my thoughts make sense to somebody besides me! :D