But see, I always read the breakup as being much more than, "You cheated and I'm leaving." The fact that the poor guy showed up after having driven in from Harrisburg, with roses, says to me that Ethan did more than just trick with him. He seduced him.
Justin throwing so many of Ethan's words back in his face (with the roses, which just makes me weep Every Single Time) tells me he believes Ethan seduced this guy the same way he seduced Justin. And frankly, so do I. Hell, I got there before Justin did, I even said in the week between the two eps that I half-expected Harrisburg Boy to look over Justin's shoulder at Ethan and tell him he was there for his song
( ... )
I'm sort of with you on Season Three, though I think that Ethan's Season Three behavior could have possibly been explained by the growing tension between him and Justin. Not justified by any means, but explained.
So to me, the incident is more than just "Ethan cheated," it calls his whole relationship with Justin into question. When I add that to his (eventual) behaviour over the contract and the things said to and around Justin at that party... I have to question whether Ethan ever really loved Justin, either. Or if he just loved being with Justin, having gorgeous and talented to hang on his arm and play the part of his muse.*squints* I agree, and then again, I wonder a little. If Ethan's MO for tricking is seduction, the same tried and true method he used with Justin, then that's what it is, an MO--that doesn't necessarily mean that his feelings for Justin were any less because of that, just like Brian's MO for tricking doesn't prove that he doesn't love Justin because that's the way he picked up Justin. That's just a pattern
( ... )
It was very personal and edged on revenge, both in his method and in his choice of venue--in full view of the public, at a party Brian had for him, surrounded by Brian's friends and semi-family and people who knew *exactly* what they were witnessing. It's that vindictive edge that bothers me most.
Except the setting was Brian's choice, just as it was Brian's choice to break things off with Michael at Michael's birthday party. Brian claims to hate martyrs, but sometimes he's really, really good at playing one. He told someone, I can't remember who now, that he was looking for Justin, then headed for the backroom. Said someone told Justin, who went looking for Brian, and found him fucking Rage. There's no way you can tell me that wasn't deliberate on Brian's part, and for all his eye-blinking devastation when Justin walks out with Ethan, some part of me still thinks, "You bastard. You engineered this ending, don't you dare act like you didn't see it coming
( ... )
It was very personal and edged on revenge, both in his method and in his choice of venue--in full view of the public, at a party Brian had for him, surrounded by Brian's friends and semi-family and people who knew *exactly* what they were witnessing.Michael says that to Justin too, that he "didn't have to humiliate Brian in front of everybody like that
( ... )
The way the Cowlip demonized Ethan just pissed me off. I liked S2 Ethan a lot better than Justin or Brian, and I was hoping for a meaingful end to the E/J relationship. I didn't see it as the love of either of their lives, but I thought it made psychological sense for two young creative people to be together.
However, I think Justin did use Ethan in that way that young, immature people sometimes unintentionally do hurt others. You know, kinda the way Brian hurt Justin. Not evil, just self-involved. At some point I figured B/J just deserve each other, drama and all.
However, I think Justin did use Ethan in that way that young, immature people sometimes unintentionally do hurt others.
Yep, he did, and pretty cold-bloodedly at first. I'm not even sure Justin ever saw *Ethan*, just saw the fantasy-boyfriend, the polar opposite of Brian in some ways. But I do tend toward thinking it was more intentional than not--he spent too much time balancing between the two, hiding Ethan from Brian, to not be aware of exactly what kind of game he was playing.
What sometimes actually *scares* me is how long he could have kept that up if Brian hadn't found out, because I think if Brian hadn't, then Justin would have played this as long as he could get away with it.
What sometimes actually *scares* me is how long he could have kept that up if Brian hadn't found out, because I think if Brian hadn't, then Justin would have played this as long as he could get away with it. Of course he would, part of the "fantasy boyfriend" is that he be a secret lover. That was part of the lure.
ITA season 2 Ethan was a dfifferent person than season 3 Ethan. The J/E breakup was unsatisfying on one hand, but on the other hand quite welcome, because by the time they broke up it was hard to like season E. I kept thinking okay break up already, I'm done with you.
Mm.. no. I'm still with the Ethan hate. I really have no sympathy for him. If he suffered on account of being "the Other Woman" well, that was his own fault. I don't think that the situation can be redefined as Justin cheating on *Ethan* with *Brian.* Ethan knew Justin had a boyfriend and that it wasn't him. He entered into this tryst with Justin knowing full well that he was going to be "the Other Woman."
Because really, Ethan's *been* on the other side of this equation, been the Other Guy, and pot and kettle here. He says, you forgave Brian, but what he's actually saying is, I forgave *you*. [...] I waited and I waited and I hoped and I hoped and then I waited some more, for you, to get over it, to get over *him*, to make a you and me, an *us*, and what the *hell* is going on here?I don't buy that. Because, really, even if you accept that Justin had been cheating on Ethan with Brian-- that in no way entitles Ethan to then go and sleep around after vows of monogamy. Ethan knew about Brian, knew what he was getting into. Ethan buys
( ... )
If he suffered on account of being "the Other Woman" well, that was his own fault. I don't think that the situation can be redefined as Justin cheating on *Ethan* with *Brian.* Ethan knew Justin had a boyfriend and that it wasn't him. He entered into this tryst with Justin knowing full well that he was going to be "the Other Woman."
True, just like Justin entered his--thing--with Brian knowing that Brian's behavior was pretty much granite and under Fort Knox security. Ethan *should* have left after a trick or two, but Justin's desperation and need are addictive things--the kid is *good* at that, probably the best, and like Brian before him, Ethan fell for being needed. It's still a wrong thing to do, but emotionally, it makes sense.
Also: as much as I feel for Brian and hurt for him and want to heal his poor broken heart-- he did it to himself. Because Brian could have stopped Justin from leaving. Not only could he have stopped Justin from leaving, but he also could have gotten him back after he left
( ... )
Ethan *should* have left after a trick or two, but Justin's desperation and need are addictive things--the kid is *good* at that, probably the best, and like Brian before him, Ethan fell for being needed.
You say it like Justin's "desperation and need" is just an act he uses to manipulate people and get what he wants. That's a bit harsh.
It blows my mind that he went into that entire hearts-and-flowers nonsense so suddenly.
This is part of my, admittedly somewhat irrational, Ethan hate. He plies Justin with violin songs and chocolate and flowers and convinces him that unless he has these things, its not really love. There's one scene where Justin tells Ethan that Brian loves him "in his own way" and Ethan replies "but not in yours." To me, that reads as Ethan saying that Brian's love isn't as good because he expresses it differently. (::hates Ethan::)
So Justin discovering that romance isn't the be-all and end-all was this huge *duh* from me.This is my major gripe about the whole Ethan storyline. To me, the sort of "moral of the
( ... )
You say it like Justin's "desperation and need" is just an act he uses to manipulate people and get what he wants. That's a bit harsh.
I do think he's manipulative as shit, but in this particular instance, no.
To me, that reads as Ethan saying that Brian's love isn't as good because he expresses it differently. (::hates Ethan::)
This is why I do not watch the last few eps of season two. Every time? RAGE
This is my major gripe about the whole Ethan storyline. To me, the sort of "moral of the story" for Justin was that not only is romance not the be-all end-all, but that romance itself is a crock and anyone who's selling it is a lying liar who lies. And I find that somewhat annoying because, honestly, there's nothing inherently wrong with *not* wanting a hustler for your birthday.That's kind of the sad part. I don't know if that's what Cowlip was trying to get across, or if they were simply trying to say, romance doesn't *prove* love, you can love people in different ways, etc
( ... )
"Or three, variate number two, Justin never stopped loving Brian, just needed someone not-Brian for a while, an experiment, a learning experience, and now he's got his feet back under him and just needs a reason to walk out and go back."
This is SO absolutely, IMO, hitting the nail on the head as to be scary. I have always, always felt that loving Brian is just so high energy that sometimes a mans just gotta leave and regroup. Rest, resuscitate and relax for a while before re-entering the fray. About the only things that make it okay are; 1. he always loved Brian; never stopped and 2. I doubt he did any of it with well thought out malicious intent; it just happened that way.
Interestingly, I wonder if Brian, on some level, knew this too and that's why he let Justin back so easily.
I don't think *most* of it was malicious. *mulls* I do think the Rage party was. Not without provocation--only a saint could have managed that, and Justin's no saint. But there was malice there. He was pissed and unhappy and Brian was doing a wonderful impression of someone who doesn't give a good shit. It wasn't planned beforehand, that was something, but the element of saying 'fuck you' to Brian was there--that if Justin was going to walk out, he was going to do it as spectacularly and painfully as possible. If for no other reason than the vague hope he'd make Brian feel *something*. And Brian didn't give him that.
"I don't think *most* of it was malicious. *mulls* I do think the Rage party was. Not without provocation--only a saint could have managed that, and Justin's no saint. But there was malice there. He was pissed and unhappy and Brian was doing a wonderful impression of someone who doesn't give a good shit. It wasn't planned beforehand, that was something, but the element of saying 'fuck you' to Brian was there--that if Justin was going to walk out, he was going to do it as spectacularly and painfully as possible. If for no other reason than the vague hope he'd make Brian feel *something*. And Brian didn't give him that
( ... )
Sorry about last night--I fell asleep on the floor in front of my laptop again. I have to stop doing that, it's giving me bruises and sore muscles. Anyway, I'll try to make it up to you. *evil grin*
Unfortunately for Melanie’s kid, impending fatherhood hadn’t improved Mikey’s gift-giving skills any, so in honor of Brian’s second son, he got two photos-one of Brian and the baby the night Gus was born, another of Brian holding Aaron-and set them on the back of a clock face. Michael presented the clock to Brian with a shit-eating grin, saying “Tick, tick, tick,” and sharing a conspiratorial grin with Justin
( ... )
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Justin throwing so many of Ethan's words back in his face (with the roses, which just makes me weep Every Single Time) tells me he believes Ethan seduced this guy the same way he seduced Justin. And frankly, so do I. Hell, I got there before Justin did, I even said in the week between the two eps that I half-expected Harrisburg Boy to look over Justin's shoulder at Ethan and tell him he was there for his song ( ... )
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So to me, the incident is more than just "Ethan cheated," it calls his whole relationship with Justin into question. When I add that to his (eventual) behaviour over the contract and the things said to and around Justin at that party... I have to question whether Ethan ever really loved Justin, either. Or if he just loved being with Justin, having gorgeous and talented to hang on his arm and play the part of his muse.*squints* I agree, and then again, I wonder a little. If Ethan's MO for tricking is seduction, the same tried and true method he used with Justin, then that's what it is, an MO--that doesn't necessarily mean that his feelings for Justin were any less because of that, just like Brian's MO for tricking doesn't prove that he doesn't love Justin because that's the way he picked up Justin. That's just a pattern ( ... )
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Except the setting was Brian's choice, just as it was Brian's choice to break things off with Michael at Michael's birthday party. Brian claims to hate martyrs, but sometimes he's really, really good at playing one. He told someone, I can't remember who now, that he was looking for Justin, then headed for the backroom. Said someone told Justin, who went looking for Brian, and found him fucking Rage. There's no way you can tell me that wasn't deliberate on Brian's part, and for all his eye-blinking devastation when Justin walks out with Ethan, some part of me still thinks, "You bastard. You engineered this ending, don't you dare act like you didn't see it coming ( ... )
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However, I think Justin did use Ethan in that way that young, immature people sometimes unintentionally do hurt others. You know, kinda the way Brian hurt Justin. Not evil, just self-involved. At some point I figured B/J just deserve each other, drama and all.
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Yep, he did, and pretty cold-bloodedly at first. I'm not even sure Justin ever saw *Ethan*, just saw the fantasy-boyfriend, the polar opposite of Brian in some ways. But I do tend toward thinking it was more intentional than not--he spent too much time balancing between the two, hiding Ethan from Brian, to not be aware of exactly what kind of game he was playing.
What sometimes actually *scares* me is how long he could have kept that up if Brian hadn't found out, because I think if Brian hadn't, then Justin would have played this as long as he could get away with it.
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Of course he would, part of the "fantasy boyfriend" is that he be a secret lover. That was part of the lure.
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Because really, Ethan's *been* on the other side of this equation, been the Other Guy, and pot and kettle here. He says, you forgave Brian, but what he's actually saying is, I forgave *you*. [...] I waited and I waited and I hoped and I hoped and then I waited some more, for you, to get over it, to get over *him*, to make a you and me, an *us*, and what the *hell* is going on here?I don't buy that. Because, really, even if you accept that Justin had been cheating on Ethan with Brian-- that in no way entitles Ethan to then go and sleep around after vows of monogamy. Ethan knew about Brian, knew what he was getting into. Ethan buys ( ... )
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True, just like Justin entered his--thing--with Brian knowing that Brian's behavior was pretty much granite and under Fort Knox security. Ethan *should* have left after a trick or two, but Justin's desperation and need are addictive things--the kid is *good* at that, probably the best, and like Brian before him, Ethan fell for being needed. It's still a wrong thing to do, but emotionally, it makes sense.
Also: as much as I feel for Brian and hurt for him and want to heal his poor broken heart-- he did it to himself. Because Brian could have stopped Justin from leaving. Not only could he have stopped Justin from leaving, but he also could have gotten him back after he left ( ... )
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You say it like Justin's "desperation and need" is just an act he uses to manipulate people and get what he wants. That's a bit harsh.
It blows my mind that he went into that entire hearts-and-flowers nonsense so suddenly.
This is part of my, admittedly somewhat irrational, Ethan hate. He plies Justin with violin songs and chocolate and flowers and convinces him that unless he has these things, its not really love. There's one scene where Justin tells Ethan that Brian loves him "in his own way" and Ethan replies "but not in yours." To me, that reads as Ethan saying that Brian's love isn't as good because he expresses it differently. (::hates Ethan::)
So Justin discovering that romance isn't the be-all and end-all was this huge *duh* from me.This is my major gripe about the whole Ethan storyline. To me, the sort of "moral of the ( ... )
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I do think he's manipulative as shit, but in this particular instance, no.
To me, that reads as Ethan saying that Brian's love isn't as good because he expresses it differently. (::hates Ethan::)
This is why I do not watch the last few eps of season two. Every time? RAGE
This is my major gripe about the whole Ethan storyline. To me, the sort of "moral of the story" for Justin was that not only is romance not the be-all end-all, but that romance itself is a crock and anyone who's selling it is a lying liar who lies. And I find that somewhat annoying because, honestly, there's nothing inherently wrong with *not* wanting a hustler for your birthday.That's kind of the sad part. I don't know if that's what Cowlip was trying to get across, or if they were simply trying to say, romance doesn't *prove* love, you can love people in different ways, etc ( ... )
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This is SO absolutely, IMO, hitting the nail on the head as to be scary. I have always, always felt that loving Brian is just so high energy that sometimes a mans just gotta leave and regroup. Rest, resuscitate and relax for a while before re-entering the fray. About the only things that make it okay are; 1. he always loved Brian; never stopped and 2. I doubt he did any of it with well thought out malicious intent; it just happened that way.
Interestingly, I wonder if Brian, on some level, knew this too and that's why he let Justin back so easily.
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Unfortunately for Melanie’s kid, impending fatherhood hadn’t improved Mikey’s gift-giving skills any, so in honor of Brian’s second son, he got two photos-one of Brian and the baby the night Gus was born, another of Brian holding Aaron-and set them on the back of a clock face. Michael presented the clock to Brian with a shit-eating grin, saying “Tick, tick, tick,” and sharing a conspiratorial grin with Justin ( ... )
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I worked last night. I *did*.
*bouncy*
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