That said, this is an interesting post. Not sure I agree 100%, but at the risk of having flames heaped upon my head, I will say I liked Ethan in season 2. Even though I knew eventually B/J would be together, I liked Ethan. I didn't feel that way in season 3. I would have liked to have seen Justin come to the realization that he wanted Brian another way, without making Ethan out to be a creep.
How?
Don't know, but even if it was just the simple fact that he didn't want a white picket fence and romance. It would have been nice to show how regular day to day living with that wasn't emotionally what Justin wanted & this would be the realization that makes him go back to Brian. I can't write and most days I'm barely articulate, but I hated everything about Season 3 Ethan.
It would have been nice to show how regular day to day living with that wasn't emotionally what Justin wanted & this would be the realization that makes him go back to Brian.
I kind of wish so, too, but I think the problem they ran into with Justin was that from mid-season two on, he was about as proactive as a mushroom. It took time, pressure, and a practical push off a cliff before Justin would leave Brian--and I'm not convinced that Justin left because he wanted to, either, but because he thought after his behavior at the Rage party (and knowing by then that Brian knew what he was up to with Ethan), Brian would never, ever forgive him. Like leaving Brian, Justin needed a catalyst he could live with--after everything he'd done just in being with Ethan, I'm not sure he could have justified to himself that he was just bored/aware this wasn't what he wanted/still in love with Brian.
Justin is a serious mystery to me for a lot of that.
Ethan being the default boyfriend always bugged me too. And I could never quite put my finger on why I felt a pang of sympathy for Ethan during the breakup scene, but your explanation of what he was really saying has made me see the light
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Justin was an asshat to both of them, but I still love him. I hated the way they resolved Justin and Ethan breaking up, because it was a complete cop-out and didn't allow Justin to really grow up and see what it was he wanted. The story would have been so much more compelling if we had seen him struggle with the realization that he wanted Brian more than Ethan.
*g* No dramatic scenes with that one. Where's the fun in that? And rose tearing. No one wants to live without the joys of rose tearing.
To feel torn over his happiness at being back with Brian and the sadness of breaking Ethan's heart. It would have fit more with the character of Justin, imo.Actually, I'm not convinced Justin is the most compassionate person ever born. Er, I said that wrong. But--I mean, in general shown behavior, he's really kind of "sweep it under the rug", as characters go. I mean, it's not like he ever went to Brian and apologized for cheating on him with someone else while having Brian support him, or being a real bitch at Rage, or to his mom for
( ... )
Nice MomentsparallacticMarch 22 2004, 17:46:58 UTC
Apologies in advance if you get spammed by this post. LJ was acting up when I tried to post it.
Now I'm actively trying to figure out when the last time he was just generally nice and thoughtful to someone was. This is bothersome.-S1, when Justin stood up for the gay kid who got picked on in class, and got detention for it
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Justin never seemed to have any understanding (or even interest) in things that were going on with Brian.
OMG yes! Thank you! People always get mad in the picnic ep because Brian refused to have one, but Justin didn't even ask where Brian was or why he looked so stressed out. And how Justin didn't care if Brian lost his job over Vermont.
OMG yes! Thank you! People always get mad in the picnic ep because Brian refused to have one, but Justin didn't even ask where Brian was or why he looked so stressed out. And how Justin didn't care if Brian lost his job over Vermont.
I'm with that one. Honestly, I don't *get* why Justin didn't just *ask*. Hell, half the issues Justin has in late season two could have been solved, or at least explain, by Justin simply *asking* a few simple questions. Which kind of goes back to my entire problem with season two Justin as opposed to season one--the season one kid wouldn't have just asked, he'd have *badgered* and *stalked* until he figured out what was going on.
Hell, half the issues Justin has in late season two could have been solved, or at least explain, by Justin simply *asking* a few simple questions.
Brian is not a mind reader. I mean really. Passive aggressive much, sunshine?
the season one kid wouldn't have just asked, he'd have *badgered* and *stalked* until he figured out what was going on.
I know, and I think that's one of the reasons I have Justin issues -- I loved him so much in S1 that his behaviour after that disappointed me. Okay, yeah, brain damage, I get that. It still doesn't keep me from repressing most of S2 due to rage.
Later S3 was better. Keep it up, Justin, keep it up.
Odd that even though Justin was a complete drama queen during the break-up, I was actually surprised Ethan didn't try to pursue the relationship further. Was he so sure from the beginning that what he had with Justin is only ever going to be a temporary thing? This came from running through what you said in my head earlier re: the forgiving part, which didn't quite make sense. A little bit over-sympathetic there?
I can't help but feel that Ethan was really living in his own make-believe world too when he was with Justin.
Odd that even though Justin was a complete drama queen during the break-up, I was actually surprised Ethan didn't try to pursue the relationship further. Was he so sure from the beginning that what he had with Justin is only ever going to be a temporary thing? This came from running through what you said in my head earlier re: the forgiving part, which didn't quite make sense. A little bit over-sympathetic there?
To be honest, Ethan put up with a *lot* for Justin, because he loved him. Not only being the other guy in Justin's life, the shameful secret, but also dealing with Justin's guilt over what he was doing. He did it, at least in season two terms, because he was In Love and all.
Hmm. Not really oversympathetic, but seeing it from Ethan's pov. He did put himself there, but in the expectation that he'd have *Justin*, which in all honesty, he didn't really ever get completely.
I can't help but feel that Ethan was really living in his own make-believe world too when he was with Justin.Maybe, but Justin encouraged that belief
( ... )
Comments 70
That said, this is an interesting post. Not sure I agree 100%, but at the risk of having flames heaped upon my head, I will say I liked Ethan in season 2. Even though I knew eventually B/J would be together, I liked Ethan. I didn't feel that way in season 3. I would have liked to have seen Justin come to the realization that he wanted Brian another way, without making Ethan out to be a creep.
How?
Don't know, but even if it was just the simple fact that he didn't want a white picket fence and romance. It would have been nice to show how regular day to day living with that wasn't emotionally what Justin wanted & this would be the realization that makes him go back to Brian. I can't write and most days I'm barely articulate, but I hated everything about Season 3 Ethan.
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I kind of wish so, too, but I think the problem they ran into with Justin was that from mid-season two on, he was about as proactive as a mushroom. It took time, pressure, and a practical push off a cliff before Justin would leave Brian--and I'm not convinced that Justin left because he wanted to, either, but because he thought after his behavior at the Rage party (and knowing by then that Brian knew what he was up to with Ethan), Brian would never, ever forgive him. Like leaving Brian, Justin needed a catalyst he could live with--after everything he'd done just in being with Ethan, I'm not sure he could have justified to himself that he was just bored/aware this wasn't what he wanted/still in love with Brian.
Justin is a serious mystery to me for a lot of that.
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*g* No dramatic scenes with that one. Where's the fun in that? And rose tearing. No one wants to live without the joys of rose tearing.
To feel torn over his happiness at being back with Brian and the sadness of breaking Ethan's heart. It would have fit more with the character of Justin, imo.Actually, I'm not convinced Justin is the most compassionate person ever born. Er, I said that wrong. But--I mean, in general shown behavior, he's really kind of "sweep it under the rug", as characters go. I mean, it's not like he ever went to Brian and apologized for cheating on him with someone else while having Brian support him, or being a real bitch at Rage, or to his mom for ( ... )
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Now I'm actively trying to figure out when the last time he was just generally nice and thoughtful to someone was. This is bothersome.-S1, when Justin stood up for the gay kid who got picked on in class, and got detention for it ( ... )
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First my Clark Issues, now my Justin Issues. I feel incomplete in fandom without those Issues.
*grins*
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OMG yes! Thank you! People always get mad in the picnic ep because Brian refused to have one, but Justin didn't even ask where Brian was or why he looked so stressed out. And how Justin didn't care if Brian lost his job over Vermont.
Oh the rage.
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I'm with that one. Honestly, I don't *get* why Justin didn't just *ask*. Hell, half the issues Justin has in late season two could have been solved, or at least explain, by Justin simply *asking* a few simple questions. Which kind of goes back to my entire problem with season two Justin as opposed to season one--the season one kid wouldn't have just asked, he'd have *badgered* and *stalked* until he figured out what was going on.
Oh the rage.
Yeah, I'm kind of getting there, too.
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Brian is not a mind reader. I mean really. Passive aggressive much, sunshine?
the season one kid wouldn't have just asked, he'd have *badgered* and *stalked* until he figured out what was going on.
I know, and I think that's one of the reasons I have Justin issues -- I loved him so much in S1 that his behaviour after that disappointed me. Okay, yeah, brain damage, I get that. It still doesn't keep me from repressing most of S2 due to rage.
Later S3 was better. Keep it up, Justin, keep it up.
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I can't help but feel that Ethan was really living in his own make-believe world too when he was with Justin.
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To be honest, Ethan put up with a *lot* for Justin, because he loved him. Not only being the other guy in Justin's life, the shameful secret, but also dealing with Justin's guilt over what he was doing. He did it, at least in season two terms, because he was In Love and all.
Hmm. Not really oversympathetic, but seeing it from Ethan's pov. He did put himself there, but in the expectation that he'd have *Justin*, which in all honesty, he didn't really ever get completely.
I can't help but feel that Ethan was really living in his own make-believe world too when he was with Justin.Maybe, but Justin encouraged that belief ( ... )
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