Oh Really? ( Wednesday Edition)

[selenak]

I know I've writtten and posted a rant about this very subject, the trivialization of the term "Nazi" in English, and now I can't find it again. Did anyone by any chance preserve it in their memories? Anyway: this post reminds me just how much I'm irked by it again. So do several of the comments. On the other hand, you learn something new every

Comments

[likeadeuce]

Hear hear! I agree with the people who have said they'd be MORE interested in the show if Liu was the lead (or if they'd let her, as Watson, keep her military backstory -- as women with military backgrounds are almost invisible in American pop culture outside of comics written by Greg Rucka). BUT, "We need to have yet another show that teases gay romance tropes with no possibility they'll ever be acted on" is not an argument I have any sympathy for.

(I do confess I have a soft spot for Jonny Lee Miller, but I'm not particularly persuaded he's well cast or anything.)

[selenak]

BUT, "We need to have yet another show that teases gay romance tropes with no possibility they'll ever be acted on" is not an argument I have any sympathy for.

Exactly. And btw, I'd be all for Liu as Holmes, too, but her as Watson is enough to get me interested at all. (

Jonny Lee Miller: so far the best on screen Byron, but unfortunately the BBC two parter in which he played same is very uneven, script wise. Otherwise I have no feelings about him one way or the other.

[likeadeuce]

I say that I like him but I also have trouble remembering that he and Jude Law are different people, so that may make the Holmes thing extra weird.

[selenak]

See, my first association with Jude Law will forever be Bosie in Wilde, so I don't have that problem. :)

[amenirdis]

Asexual Holmes is fine with me. Gay Holmes is fine with me. Bi Holmes is fine with me. Straight Holmes is fine with me. (Ditto for Watson.) But what is so getting old is the endless playing coy and runnig "gay! only not!" gags. Either go for main text or find another running gag, I say.

Wordy McWord with word on top! I am so done with that. And if I have one more person tell me on my pro journal that it's impossible to sell a novel with queer main characters, I'm going to clock someone!

[selenak]

I'll lend you the clocking device!

[linaerys]

Even Frank Miller had a female Robin in The Dark Knight Returns, but yeah, probably not with El Nolan.

As for the rest of this entry, IAWTC.

[selenak]

Yes, but I did not want to invoke Miller, given his attitude about... more lor less everything?

[linaerys]

Well, that's why it's an EVEN Frank Miller situation. Because dude writes some nutty, sexist, racist shit. Although I recall liking his female Robin, because of how not sexualized she was.

[selenak]

Oh, I was fine with Carrie, too. And how sadly rare it was she had a sensible costume that wasn't different from a male Robin's costume. As opposed to, well, standard for most female characters.

[penknife]

Asexual Holmes is fine with me. Gay Holmes is fine with me. Bi Holmes is fine with me. Straight Holmes is fine with me. (Ditto for Watson.) But what is so getting old is the endless playing coy and runnig "gay! only not!" gags. Either go for main text or find another running gag, I say.

Word. It is 2012: put up or shut up, show writers.

[selenak]

It's not that I don't like subtext in either same sex or het relationships per se, and would want either consumated same sex relationships or nothing at all. I'm very fond of subtext, actually. And sometimes two people, for whatever reason (other prior commitments, professional relationship, living in a homophobic environment, genuine personal hostility, whatever) really never get around to having sex despite having sexual tension with each other. It's the constant winking and wanting to have to have your cake and eat it approach I can't stand anymore.

As an example of a show who doesn't do that: Farscape. The main character, John Crichton, has massive sexual tension with his arch nemesis, Scorpius. Which the show isn't coy around (Farscape isn't coy about anything, actually; it has other flaws, but never that one), plus John, being a genre geek extraordinaire and not shy, brings it up in dialogue, too. However, a) given that this is an entirely screwed up relationship involving torture at the very start and mind games in the years

[nomadicwriter]

I will admit I'm wary of the fact the role makes her the sidekick to the Great White Male Genius, which has some big potential pitfalls, plus the fact I've heard that female Watson has not only had the military background removed but will also be an ex-surgeon who lost her medical license over a patient's death. But on the other hand... Lucy Liu. (She would have made a fantastic Sherlock, dammit.)

I thought when I first heard the rumours that they were considering a female Watson was that the very best thing would be to pair her with a female Holmes. But I knew that wasn't ever actually going to happen, so Liu is certainly a very nice surprise as a choice of actress. If they succeed in depicting the actual Holmes-Watson relationship with her as Watson, it will be fantastic; I'm just nervous about how much they're going to alter things because they've cast a woman.

...But, "Oh no, it's ruined, ruined if they get girl cooties in my slashy bromance!" is really not on my list of concerns. *facepalm*

[a_g_doren]

I will admit I'm wary of the fact the role makes her the sidekick to the Great White Male Genius, which has some big potential pitfalls, plus the fact I've heard that female Watson has not only had the military background removed but will also be an ex-surgeon who lost her medical license over a patient's death. But on the other hand... Lucy Liu. (She would have made a fantastic Sherlock, dammit.)

The stereotype for Asians though is that they are extremely intelligent so if she is not as intelligent as he is that could be a step in the right direction. Kinda' like how some folks complained that Uhura in the Star Trek reboot was a stereotype and weakened by being put into a romantic relationship, but then black women said "no, the stereotype for black women is to be strong and independent of romantic attachments". I guess we'll just have to see, but generally speaking surgeons are intelligent.

[nomadicwriter]

Good point. My reactions were mostly formed when the idea of a female Watson was leaked but before we knew it was going to be Liu, but of course the intersectionality issues change the set of stereotypes you have to think about. Liu Watson having less job competence and no combat skills is potentially problematic, but then so too would be making her a hyper-intelligent martial arts badass. Really, it's all going to be a matter of degree and execution, and I should probably stop trying to anticipate all the ways it could go wrong until we've actually had a chance to see what the script is like.

If only I wasn't quite so cynical about bandwagon-hopping remakes in general... (Because to be fair to the US, our UK remakes of their shows are usually equally terrible. We just manage to bury the evidence better because we make fewer episodes and the global media pays less attention.)

[a_g_doren]

If only I wasn't quite so cynical about bandwagon-hopping remakes in general... (Because to be fair to the US, our UK remakes of their shows are usually equally terrible. We just manage to bury the evidence better because we make fewer episodes and the global media pays less attention.)

For some reason I feel a bit better about this now. :) Its worth it to wait and see. I watch Merlin, I don't know if you do as well. But they cast a black Guinevere and have her as a maid at first. Initially I was very wary of this, but I decided to watch anyway. For all the problems I have with Merlin the one problem I don't have is with Guinevere being a maid. So the lost license and her non-military background may not be nearly as upsetting as it could be.