More Marvel

[selenak]

Aaand we have another Marvel trailer, this for for Captain America: Civil War.

Click to view

Thoughts, based on the trailer but no MCU spoilers (other than what is in the trailer), since I'm actively trying to avoid those, though I will discuss the comics Civil War storyline (which by necessity was different anyway):

Comments

[vaysh]

As always, thank you for all your informed thoughts on the CW trailer.

(Or, completley honestly, "because principle AND Bucky".)
I am hoping for that, as well. I think, storywise, it needs personal investment behind a fight for principles, to make the fight believable, and make us care. And *Bucky* seems to be the personal investment that the Russos give to Steve. I'm all for it. :)

[selenak]

As long as Bucky isn't the sole reason, because otherwise we'd have Nibelungentreue, which I'm so not for. I really think Steve needs to be motivated by both in order for the story to work for me.

[vaysh]

I whole-heartedly agree. I think the Russos are going more with: Bucky's fate reflects on a personal, emotional level the political issues that the CA story line is dealing with. Steve's increasing criticism of SHIELD in CA:TWS has nothing to do with Bucky.

[selenak]

Very true, I should trust the Russos when it comes to politics and Steve's motivations.

(Mind you: the Russos were also the ones who who introduced the so far not yet used intel that the Winter Soldier killed Howard and Maria Stark, so suddenly while gratefully knowing they won't do it I do have terrible Nibelungenlied AU thoughts, starring Bucky as Hagen, Tony as Kriemhild and Steve as König Gunther. :)

(With poor Rhodey playing Kriemhild's kid by Etzel, the one Hagen beheads. Seriously, I'm so invested in the wrong long term bff in this movie. I <3 Rhodey a lot, and while you Steve/Bucky shippers went yay over the basement scene, I went "wah!" over the Tony-holds-Rhodey's-comatose-body scene in the trailer.)

[ffutures]

I really hope they can come up with more motivation than "protect Bucky and avoid oversight"; the basic premise looks a little on the thin side.

[selenak]

Especially if you're not into Bucky, which yours truly is not (so far - I've changed my mind about characters before! As long as the movie gives me a character). Really though, I want a disagreement about a serious principle that concerns many people. That's the kind of story I'm interested in.

[sholan]

Y'know, generally I'm #TeamIronMan. The way this trailer plays out? Makes him look like an asshat. The Avengers, and Shield by and large, have no oversight. Their existence is to basically do things no one else can and/or do things no one can know about. Given that reasoning, (cause i have no idea who Buck is) I would have expected them to stick together. They others didn't have to help, but they didn't have to try to stop him either.

[ponygirl2000]

I'm hopeful that there will be more of a real argument in the movie, because while I actually really like Stucky the trailer left me agreeing with Tony. I'm always going to be pro oversight, but then Steve has far more of a reason to be distrustful of government's than I do. The MCU Steve is much more bitter about his role, and Bucky is the extreme example of what can happen when people are used as extensions of government will. Steve only trusts himself and a very small number of people. Natasha on the other hand doesn't trust herself and wants checks and balances as a backup, so I could see her siding with Tony because he has a similar perspective. He's seen what happens when there are no limits on his person and it scared him.

It should be really interesting. Fingers crossed it doesn't get overly simplified.

[selenak]

Have you read the interview the Russos gave about the trailer? It makes me somewhat optimistic they're going for complexity in the argument, rather than black and white, with the basic assumption Steve must be right because he's Captain America and decency itself. Choice quote:

“When people leave the theatre, they’re going to be arguing about who was right in the movie, whether it was Tony, or whether it was Cap,” says Joe Russo. “Tony has a very legitimate argument in the movie that’s a very adult point of view, about culpability, about the Avengers’ responsibility to the world, and the world’s right to have some sort of control over the Avengers. It’s a very complicated emotional arc for Tony Stark in this movie.

Also, re: Tony's emotional motivation: "Tony’s defining characteristic is his egomania, in a lot of ways,” adds Anthony Russo, “and we thought it would be interesting to bring him to a point in his life where he was willing to submit to an authority, where he felt it was the right thing to do.” Tony is also driven by the

[zahrawithaz]

I cannot comment on the Marvel film verse choices here.

But I am very worried about a big pop culture film like this playing with this idea at a time when politicians in the US are actively debating fascist policies re the "registration" of immigrants and other powerless groups. The fantastic racism trope is rarely done well, and it sounds like they're going for "both sides have some good arguments" approach. Which I might agree with in a fictional universe, but I find absolutely terrifying in the real world.