Comments | secretsolitaire: Speak to me of betas

secretsolitaire

Speak to me of betas

Sep 06, 2007 22:54

I have blathered about the writing process in this journal on a few occasions, but today I was thinking about editing (or in fandom terms, beta-ing). Although I've only beta'd a few works of fanfic, I do edit a lot at work and am always looking to improve and to better understand the process ( Read more... )

beta-ing

Comments 24

wook77 September 7 2007, 03:29:01 UTC

I have three people I stick with, for the most part. I use them because I know that if I'm going wrong, they'll tell me. I need someone that'll just call me on my crap and these three do.

One mainly sticks to the grammar but also tells me what works and what doesn't. For me, more than anything, I need someone to tell me when my characterisations are off, when canon goes astray, when I'm sounding like a self-important twunt, that sort of thing.

I beta for two of them, as well. I read through the first time for plot continuity... what works, what doesn't. Then I read through for grammar/spelling. Then I re-read for plot/characterisation/etc. I'm a fairly blunt beta so I let them know when I feel that they're going wrong or when something's awkward.

/five cents

secretsolitaire September 7 2007, 23:39:25 UTC

It's interesting to see the order you read in. I'm a bit of a grammar nerd, so the first thing I do almost always is to fix all the spelling/punctuation/usage errors -- otherwise I can't concentrate on what an author is trying to say! Once I've nabbed those, then I can read again and concentrate on flow, content, that sort of thing.

I'm a fairly blunt beta so I let them know when I feel that they're going wrong or when something's awkward.

Just curious: when you find that something isn't working, do you usually suggest how they could fix it, and if so, how much detail do you go into? I sometimes struggle with telling someone how to fix something without rewriting it myself.

flashfly September 7 2007, 03:46:43 UTC

First, I love my betas!!

My first beta was an RL friend and we used to get together for dinner and drinks and hash out the story and go over her edits and suggestions. I wanted her to talk to me about everything - syntax, mood, characterization, punctuation. I want all feedback. She got too busy in RL and I decided to do the humane thing and released her of her duties. :)

I am now in a happy new relationship with the most, self-sacrificing, woman ever! She has literally emailed me round the clock as I sent version after version to her. firehead30's gift is for characterization. She has set me straight more than once and had it not been for her, it might have been a disaster. So, I thank my lucky stars for her.

I'm paranoid about posting a beta-less fic. I want another's brain and eyes all over it. Strangely, I don't ever have my drabbles betaed. I cross my fingers and rely on the hours of work and the fact that there's only 100 words.

I've also betaed for handful of different writers. Most recently, for gmta_nz who is just brilliant to ( ... )

justinlovesart September 7 2007, 05:18:41 UTC

I've been accused of being a perfectionist and I will own up to it

I love your perfectionism. And I can testify to it, because she keeps sending me suggestions well after the fic has been posted (btw, if you have any about the last ficlet...) For Jude, whether it's her own writing or beta'ing someone else's, it's definitely not a simple matter of posting, getting feedback and moving on.

I feel a bit embarassed about having had xie_xie_xie and flashfly beta'ing my little ficlets, because they're far, far better writers than I can ever hope to be and some of the best in this fandom, yet they put up with the added burden of having to check my non-native grammar and syntax, as well as giving in-depth feedback about characterization and structure. But you have to trust your betas and I trust them.

I loved beta'ing for xie_xie_xie, she made me feel part of the creative process and it was one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever had. It also gave me the courage to attempt my own writing.

flashfly September 7 2007, 06:14:07 UTC

While I'm thinking about it, I've been meaning to tell you this for months, and always forget. You added a 'bewildered' to the end of In Love Again, and it was absolutely perfect. Perfect word, perfect sentiment and perfect placement. I smiled when I saw it.

In Love Again is not a little ficlet. It's breathtakingly eloquent and powerful, and it was so before I ever laid eyes on it.

Also? I want to hear from Aggie and Ella sometime before I die.

secretsolitaire September 7 2007, 23:56:30 UTC

flashfly has a truly inspiring way with words -- I can see how she'd be a great beta!

I like that you mention trust, because I think that's very important in a writer/beta relationship. For me (and a lot of writers, I think) writing is an intensely personal act, so I really feel like I'm putting a part of myself out there when I share my words with someone else. And because of that it can be difficult to see your own writing objectively. You need to be able to trust your beta to see the things you can't see -- and to point them out in a way that won't make you feel like never writing again. ;-)

Just as a side note, I'd never know from your writing that English isn't your native language. I very much admire that.

Thread 8

pir8fancier September 7 2007, 04:18:48 UTC

The important stuff I beta. Always. I have a stable of people I've used in the past and I continue to use and I always canvass for new people as well. I find writing a very solitary process and the betas cull out my excesses and my myopia.

secretsolitaire September 8 2007, 00:05:22 UTC

I agree -- after you've spent so much time living and breathing a piece, there's no way you can look at it objectively anymore. Need another set of eyes (or several sets!). Thanks for weighing in. :-)

beauty_forashes September 7 2007, 04:53:00 UTC

I think it depends on individual preference. I've beta'd for people who've wanted ONLY the spelling/grammar/etc. fixed, and I've beta'd for people who wanted input on plot, characterization and so forth - everyone's different. I prefer to beta for authors who want the latter, it's just more fun that way. Usually I read the document to see if the "flow" is good and the plot makes sense, then I go over it again and correct spelling, grammar and so on, and read it a third time to see if I got everything, of course I only make suggestions, I'd never feel comfortable with actually changing anything someone else wrote (some authors ask you to, I don't like to take that much liberty ( ... )

secretsolitaire September 8 2007, 01:10:31 UTC

No apologies for rambling! I appreciate your thoughts. :-)

As I said to someone above, I always have to do spelling/grammar stuff on the first read through because I find those kinds of errors too distracting otherwise. (I think at heart I am a copy editor.) Once I get those little errors out of the way, then I can go back and read for content and figure out whether the piece flows, whether I have questions that go unanswered, that sort of stuff.

I totally agree with you that a writer should spellcheck and proofread his/her work before an editor ever lays eyes on it. I mean, it's just lazy not to, IMHO. I work with professional writers at work and sometimes stories come in with errors that spellcheck definitely would've caught -- and these people are getting paid!

beauty_forashes September 8 2007, 16:55:43 UTC

I totally agree with you that a writer should spellcheck and proofread his/her work before an editor ever lays eyes on it. I mean, it's just lazy not to, IMHO

Yeah, it is...I mean, I'm not that nuts, if there are a few misspellings and such, no big deal. But recently someone asked me to beta a short fic that had NO punctuation aside from periods, tons of misspellings, NO paragraphs, NO quotation marks in the dialogue, etc., just one solid block of gibberish text - and I just flat-out refused to do it. I do like to help someone out, but I don't have "pushover" tattooed on my forehead, right? I mean, gimme a freaking break - lol!

secretsolitaire September 8 2007, 22:41:55 UTC

Ugggh, that's awful -- definitely above and beyond the call of duty!

midnitemaraud_r September 7 2007, 05:28:22 UTC

For me, what makes a good beta is someone who is honest and bold enough to tell me, "Lisa, this is a big oozing pile of crap!" :-P

I mean, sure, I want someone who's going to help find my typos, correct my grammar, and give me their opinions on the characterizations, plot, flow, etc., but what I really prize is someone who can say, "this isn't working for me and here's why." ("this" being anything and everything to do with said fic) And you'd be surprised how difficult that is. People don't want to hurt my feelings, or they think I'll get mad, even when I tell them "rip this sucker apart", like I'm just saying it and don't really mean it. But I do mean it.

However. What I don't like in a beta is someone who is going to try to rewrite my fic to suit their own preferred style. I'm all for suggestions on how to make something flow/sound/work better, but it's my story, and I'm going to write it the way I write. This isn't professional publication, it's fanfic, and while I always want to post the best story I can, I want it to ( ... )

secretsolitaire September 8 2007, 03:03:51 UTC

Wow, I can't believe that person rewrote your fic like that for an archive posting -- that's crazy! As you said, it's one thing if it's a professional article that needs to fit a certain publication's style or something, but not for amateur creative writing! (Not that I'm saying your work is amateur, but you know what I mean.) I don't blame you for taking your fic elsewhere.

I think "their voice, not mine" is an excellent rule of thumb. The job of a beta/editor is to help the author write the best fic he/she can.

I ask them beforehand what they want me to do. Some people don't want that I want. But regardless, I try to be tactful about how I say things, I'm very longwinded about explaining why I think something doesn't work, and I'll make suggestions, too, if I have any. I also ask lots of questions back in case I'm interpreting something wrong.On the few occasions I've beta'd for people, this is pretty similar to my approach -- ask if there's anything I should know beforehand, find out what they want me to look for, explain every ( ... )