Steve/Tony and Steve/Sharon

[scrollgirl]

I've never heard of Anthony Mackie before, but I'm glad that Sam Wilson is being included in Captain America 2. I'm also hearing rumours that Sharon Carter has been cast? Or it's simply been announced that she's being included in the movie? Well, I had assumed she would be so no surprise there. Unfortunately it seems that the shipping wars have

Comments

[rhia_starsong]

This kind of crap is exactly why I'm never getting involved with Tumblr. It seems to have a much higher proportion of assholes to normal people, and they seem to display the same kind of behaviour you see on the Pit of Voles.

Hey, at least you're aware that sometimes your ship can be creepy! No problem with that. I don't get people who take any other ship as a personal attack, not just against their own ship, but in general.

[scrollgirl]

Tumblr is good if you're really selective about who you follow, I think. There *are* some good people on it, but yeah, I've also seen wank that just makes me really tired and want to abandon the platform altogether. Maybe it's because the platform doesn't allow for the same kind of person-to-person discussion that can happen in LJ comments. There's a lot of anon-ing and reblogs, very little threaded conversation

[rhia_starsong]

I've always thought it bitterly ironic that, for something like shipping which is supposed to be about love (or at least lust), there's so much hate involved. People need to take a breath, as my dad would say, and put the world in perspective again.

Yeah, I think because Tumblr panders to the anon crowd, it's very easy to get trollish behaviour and much harder to get personal like it is here on LJ/DW.

I also think that maybe the etymology is to blame--take OTP apart. One True Pairing. It automatically assigns a value judgement and is exclusionary in one go.

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, we probably need a better term. Back in HL fandom, I heard people calling individual male characters "BSO", meaning Beloved Slash Object. It wasn't used for pairings, but maybe it would be better to call your favourite ship BSP or BHP: Beloved Slash or Het Pairing.

[rosewildeirish]

Re: your footnote, for me there's also the fact that Captain America!Howard Stark and Iron Man!Howard Stark are like two different men. Whatever happened between WWII and Tony's appearance, it *changed* Howard, radically, IMO.

So. It makes it difficult for me to kind of remember that they are supposed to be the same guy. They don't seem all that related, and it makes the disconnect even further.

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, Howard must have gone through a lot during and after WWII to become the kind of man who failed to make it clear to his son that he loved him. (OTOH, Tony's not much better.) So the Howard that Steve might have dated isn't the same person who neglected Tony so badly. Heh, I almost want to quote Pocahontas: "What I love most about rivers is you can't step in the same river twice." Fifty years can do a lot to a person.

As another point, I feel it's important to keep movie!Howard separate from comics!Howard for meta purposes, even though I don't mind the two characters being mixed up a little in fanfic. I personally don't see movie!Howard hitting Tony, for instance.

[fredericks]

I never understood the idea behind ship wars/angry!times. Why can't we all like whatever fictional characters/arbitrary pairings that we like. I mean, if you wanna do Tony/Dummy, more power to ya. IDEK.

[scrollgirl]

I've been in my share of ship wars in the past, so I can't claim any innocence. We get so invested in our pairings, especially pairings that have some canon support, that alternative pairings feel like "competition". But you're right--why *not* ship whoever you want? It's silly, that kind of fighting, when we could be having fun talking about things we like, instead of things we hate.

[raincitygirl]

Anthony Mackie was EXCELLENT in "The Hurt Locker". I had my issues with the movie, but none with his performance. I'm sure he'll be great in Capsicle 2.

[scrollgirl]

I don't watch a lot of dramas--or movies, really--but I'll put it on my list.

Capsicle 2! Hee!

[svgurl]

Your post is so spot on. I'm just tired of ship wars. Why can't everyone just like what they like and leave everyone else alone? It's no wonder I'm too wary to get involved in any fandom. After all the nonsense in Smallville, I was tired. I read fic and that's basically it.

Also, can we please stop bashing female characters for any reason, shipping or otherwise?
THIS. THIS SO HARD. And the worst part is that usually it's the female fans who are bashing these female characters. It's just wrong.

[scrollgirl]

I enjoy meta, so I don't necessarily shy away from being critical of characters, but I don't see a point in being unbalanced in one's criticism because then it stops being thoughtful discourse and is just wanking. We're so quick to put different pairings in competition with each other. IMHO, every pairing has its unique charms.

[svgurl]

Meta is good. Though I don't read a lot of it, mostly because I never know where to look, I enjoy reading it from time to time. I don't usually have anything valuable to add but I do like finding other people's in depth thoughts. But yes, some people do go too far and their bias shows too clearly in their argument, which really takes away from it.

We're so quick to put different pairings in competition with each other. IMHO, every pairing has its unique charms.Seriously. I mean, I've gotten passionate about my ships in the past and hell, I still do, but I think I'm learning from my mistakes as I grow older. I agree with what you said about people putting ships into competition and there really isn't a need to. I think that we have to realize that a) chemistry is subjective, so not everyone is going to like the same thing, and b) No material the source material- book, movie, tv show- people are always going to ship different things. Mostly because of A. Though all ships are not going to happen, there's no need to put down one person's

[scrollgirl]

I don't do as much meta as I used to, not like when I first joined Buffyverse fandom. But I like dissecting characters--it's my idea of fun!

Yeah, I'm slowly learning from my mistakes as well. My last OTP had zero canon support, and I'll admit to resenting the major slash pairing that seemed to devour the fandom. But I tried to keep my resentment in locked posts and out of other people's fannish spaces--if you didn't know me and share my opinions, you wouldn't have known how I felt about any of it. I wish more people took that approach, because I do think it's healthy to vent privately now and then, but not spew it in other people's faces. Don't piss in someone's cheerios, you know? And double that for bashing on female characters.