Subverting father/son stories (spoilers for "Outcast" SGA 4x15)

[scrollgirl]

Dear flist, please help? I have a question about literary themes for anyone who might have an opinion, but especially for the veteran writers (masqthephlsphr), whether fanfic or original, because I figure they've dealt with this before or something similar.

Is it better to deviate from convention and risk losing your audience to a WTF, or to follow a well-

Comments

[bhadrasvapna]

Go with your instincts or the story will lose its resonance with you. If you feel forced into writing something a certain way because of conventions (either accepting or rebelling against), then the story will feel forced to the reader.

When dealing with speculative fiction, all conventions are open. Part of the reason people read (especially spec fiction) is to lose themselves in another world. Your job as a writer is to create a fictional world that is so real that the reader doesn't have time to think about what the conventions are. If the reader is thinking WTF or this is an outdated stereotype, the writer hasn't done her job.

Just write the story that keeps you awake at night until it is written. Honor your muse and she will honor you.

[scrollgirl]

Just write the story that keeps you awake at night until it is written. Honor your muse and she will honor you.

Wise words, Jeanie. I suspect you're right, that my instincts know what kind of story I need to tell. I'll just have to be careful about how to handle the conventions.

Thanks :)

[bhadrasvapna]

No problem.

I'm sure you will find your story, or it will find you.

[masqthephlsphr]

I'd rather alienate my audience than cater to convention. It's worth the risk I think, not to write yet another cliche, no matter how much people take comfort in it. The short run of alienating readers has to be considered against the long run of artistic integrity and the fact that you'll attract a better class of reader who will appreciate you for taking chances.

[masqthephlsphr]

Addending: there was some debate about why Connor was male, about why Joss gave Angel a son rather than a daughter. And the answer most fans in the debate ultimately fell to is the dynamic between father and son was deep into Angel's issues in a way the dynamic between a father and daughter would not have been for him. Angel was playing out his relationship with his own father with Connor. Angel had much less of an issue with daughter-figures or sister-figures. Yes, fathers and sons gets a lot of play in literature, for the reason that writers who get published have been primarily men and men need to work out their daddy issues.

But if it's daddy issues your character has, given him a son, no matter how much you might want to give him a daughter. If there's no story there, there's no story.

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, I think I have to go with giving John a son. I'll give the existing female characters a bigger role as friends, but stick to fathers and sons for the family conflicts.

It seems these kinds of stories (fathers/sons and mothers/daughters) don't cross the gender divide too often. But then we're a gendered society.

Thanks so much for your comments. They really helped!

[masqthephlsphr]

Opposite-sex parent/child stories are common enough. It seems that parent-child story lines that cross gender are often a way to deal with issues of the child character's sexuality (when they are an adult), whereas same-sex parent/child story lines more often deal with issues of the child character's identity and life choices.

Since many of my own protagonists are gay, there are often parent/child stories which depict conflict between a same-sex parent and child that evoke both sexuality themes AND identity/career themes. I also have a tendency to write father/daughter stories in which the father and daughter are close and have a good relationship while the daughter has an angsty relationship with her mother or a mother-figure. Go figure.

[atpolittlebit]

Regarding your first concern, and as an average reader who is not a writer, I've never really separated the two sons as 'older' and 'younger' in my head but as 'the one who stayed' and 'the one who left and returned'. The birth order never mattered, to me, just the fact that one had been dutifully working to fulfill the father's expectations while the other was off doing whatever, and was understandably cranky that the other got the big welcome home with open arms.

That's my penny.

[scrollgirl]

Oooh, that makes me feel so much better! I suspect the older/younger thing sticks with me since I've been taught the story since childhood, and because it seems reasonable that the older sibling is dutiful and the younger is "rebellious" (Martha and Mary).

But I'm glad to hear it's not necessarily a deterrent.

[masqthephlsphr]

Good grief. My sister, the oldest child, was the rebel and the "bad girl" and I was the younger sister and the one expected to not do whatever she did. Happens often enough, I think.

[scrollgirl]

You're right, I'm not sure how well the generalisation works. But I'm trying to think of lit examples where the older kid was the "rebel" and the younger kid was the good one. Those stories must be out there somewhere.

[scrollgirl]

Since we don't have canon ages for either brother, I went by the actors' ages -- Dylan Neal is two years younger than Joe. Also, unlike the prodigal son story John isn't a slacker, he just wanted a different life. Which reminds me of King Edward VIII abdicating the throne to his younger brother. But yeah, just my interpretation!

If Eleanor was older, had her own personality, was her own person, then I'd tell part of the story from her POV. But I realise the kid is just a signifier (for now) and it makes more sense for it to be a son. Maybe I'll still write Eleanor Sheppard-Mitchell one day :)

Will have to look up quote, but Cam mentions a younger brother once.

[scrollgirl]

From Stargate SG-1 Solutions: Cameron has at least one younger brother (9.20 "Camelot"). Cameron has also described having a "bible thumping" grandma, an Uncle Marvin, and an Aunt Emma. (9.03 "Origin", 9.01 "Avalon Part 1", and 9.13 "Ripple Effect", respectively).

From "Camelot":
VALENCIA: Where did you learn to fight like that?
MITCHELL: Broomstick battles with my kid brother, and the Sodan ritual of kel shak lo made me the nimble warrior that I am today.