Payoffs

Oct 15, 2008 11:01

So I'm loading up the dishwasher, and thinking about payoffs, especially after a long series.
Read more... )

payoffs, conversations, reader expectation, discussion

Leave a comment

Comments 105

akamarykate October 15 2008, 18:35:39 UTC
I remember a similar display of emotion on the last episode of "The Mary Tyler Moore Show". I don't remember the episode itself much, though what I do remember I'm fine with, but what struck me, even as a kid, was how tight that group of actors must have been to have that much emotion in their final scene and curtain call.

And the other ending that I think worked, tv-wise, was the finale of "Newhart", when he wakes up and it was all a dream--in his *previous* series. It was just as silly and wacky as the show itself could be--it was true to itself, and that's why I think people still remember it, as much as they remember the fact that it was a gimmicky ending.

I remember a fantasy series that I read as the books were released, and the whole thing at the end reset the world to the beginning of the first book--BUT the heroine retained all she'd learned and how she'd changed, and made far different choices than she would have if she hadn't been through all those books' worth of adventure and trauma.

Reply

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:12:53 UTC
Interesting--what is that last one, do you remember?

Reply

akamarykate October 15 2008, 19:30:00 UTC
That was a series by Louise Cooper called Indigo...it's unusual for me to remember the ending of a long (7-book) series so clearly, and not remember much about what happened in the midst of it. I should probably reread it at some point--but I'm not particularly motivated to do so, and haven't been for years, so I can't vouch for the quality of what went on in books 2-6. :)

Reply

sartorias October 15 2008, 20:01:12 UTC
Thanks!

Reply


(The comment has been removed)

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:12:00 UTC
I'm with you...which ones worked for you that way, can you think of examples, and maybe what about it just sang to you?

Reply

(The comment has been removed)

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:58:18 UTC
Oh that is a very powerful observation about Simon and River.

Reply


frumiousb October 15 2008, 18:37:22 UTC
What comes immediately to mind are series in which you know going into the last book that the payoff can't be enough. Even if Jordan had lived, I had long since lost the feeling that the Wheel of Time was going to be anything to me except a long, moderately entertaining Shaggy Dog story. The last book, it seems to me, has to leave you wanting more instead of desperately glad that it's finally over. I've noticed that with Tad Williams' books as well. I can generally remember the first book, but not the last.

Sometimes a last book utterly ruins the series. I'm thinking about the unfortunate Bitterbynde books by Cecilia Dart- Thornton. The last book was so absolutely disappointing that it poisoned the whole series.

I'm tired and grumpy tonight, so perhaps I'll think later of series ends that worked.

Reply

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:11:01 UTC
It could be that your idea here and malkingrey"'s are akin....nothing could please the fans?

Though there are good endings to series, ones that the fans don't howl down.

Reply

frumiousb October 16 2008, 16:10:30 UTC
No, I don't think that. Actually, I always get kind of irritated when I hear an author use that defense when their last book is criticized.

I think that for me, the endings I remember best are the ones that don't stand out in my head as endings. I tend to remember the bad endings, because in the case of the good ones I just remember the whole of the series in general and not just the last book.

There's a problem with more realistic modern fantasy that with any ending you have to ask "why did it end here"-- since so much of that work resists the Giant Evil. I hated series that ended with the Death of Magic, but in some respects I kind of understand why that trope evolved.

Reply

sartorias October 16 2008, 16:16:41 UTC
Interesting.

Death of magic put me out right from the gitgo. It always felt to me like "I got to play with my toys, but now that I'm done, the world ends." I understood the motivation behind it much, much later.

Death of the Big Bad has ceased to be interesting...but in some stories I read around it, in effect.

Reply


telophase October 15 2008, 18:50:29 UTC
After finishing a particular anime series a couple of years ago, I realized that what made an ending powerful and affecting for me was a combination of the bittersweet, where the characters succeed but perhaps lose important things along the way or only partially succeed, and open-endedness, where I get a sense of the characters continuing to live their lives and of questions that still need to be answered or mysteries that are never explained.

I think with the bittersweet, the pain of the loss or failure stands next to the joy of success and makes it stand out more: in a painting when you want to pop a bright color, you make sure to put it next to a dark color and the contrast brings it out.

Leaving it open-ended (to an extent) gives the world and characters room - it keeps them from feeling like it's a small, cramped universe, and it hints of stories yet to come, even if the author has no intent of creating more. It allows *my* mind room to explore and makes the whole thing seem bigger than what's contained in the book/show/

Reply

telophase October 15 2008, 19:00:42 UTC
I should perhaps add that this isn't the *only* way of doing it, although the endings that affect me that aren't of the bittersweet variety tend to be much fewer in number. Two I can remember offhand: the ending of Hughart's Bridge of Birds, where I was sobbing in joy at the sheer over-the-topness of the ending, because he threw in everything and the kitchen sink, and it was both utterly ridiculous and completely perfect; the other, the end of the Doctor Who episode "The Doctor Dances," where ... aaagh, going to spoiler-protect this for a vague feeling of spoileryness for the episode, if someone here hasn't seen it this two-part fairly grim episode comes to an end an the Earth is saved yet again, and the Doctor realizes ... nobody died! Everyone was saved. Everyone lives! It's a joy that stands out against the dismal WWII Blitz setting and mood of the episode, and the one before it, and I suppose of you pull the camera out far enough, it becomes bittersweet, because part of the joy that derives from nobody dying is because in other ( ... )

Reply

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:08:05 UTC
Hughart is a good ending, though not particularly a series.

I'm with you on bittersweet...the ending of Lord of the Rings is what leaps to mind there. Very powerful.

Reply

telophase October 15 2008, 19:09:16 UTC
Yeah. It's probably telling that the two non-bittersweet endings I thought of were both individual chapters in a longer work, although Hughart may not have intended to write more at the time. :D

Reply


malkingrey October 15 2008, 18:57:05 UTC
There's a certain "you can't win" effect at work in the last volume/episode of a series, especially a long-running and absorbingly popular one. The readers or viewers will have been so caught up in the world and the characters for so long that most of them will already have a desired conclusion written in their heads, and they're going to judge the author's own finale less on its artistic merits than on how well it tallies with their personal vision. This pretty much guarantees that a concluding episode could end world hunger, cure cancer, and bring about peace in our time, and most people still wouldn't like it.

Reply

sartorias October 15 2008, 19:09:00 UTC
That's a thought...though here's I'm trying to think of examples. I know I know some, but drawing blank: perfectly good ending, but fans growl.

Reply

malkingrey October 16 2008, 01:38:31 UTC
The X-Files series pulled it off, I think, if you exclude the shows featuring the stand-in actors and just focus on Mulder and Scully's journey. It was not perfect, they lost a lot, but in some ways it was the only way the show could have ended.

Reply

clarentine October 16 2008, 01:39:22 UTC
Damn it, that was me. ::growls at LJ::

Reply


Leave a comment

Up