this is probably an ignorant comment given all the work you've done, but I thought it was about Dean usually being POV character? We see more directly what's going on with him, rather than being told via conversation.
*is confused* I don't think Dean is at all the equivalent of a child character, or in any way similar to the scenario you described.
And as far as other characters treating Dean badly, nobody on the show is treated with much respect - they're all criticized, rejected, name-called, hit, accused of less than good motives at various points in the show. Nobody gets the kid-glove treatment, and in fact, Dean is closer and has more connections/better relationships on the show than Sam, with Castiel and Bobby particularly. I figure that's because Dean is more open and warm, so there's a reason for that. They're different characters, after all, and aren't going to have these all-equivalent relationships and character arcs.
I believe you're very passionate about your viewpoint, so I don't think we'll necessarily go along with what the other says, which, you know, happens. A lot:)
If this is coming across like I'm a bitter Dean girl, well, I am. If I am, it's because writing choices on this show have given me more than ample reason to be.
I'll have to save this to read it several more times, because it's brilliant and sad and depressing - all because it's true, evidence IMO of how the producers of this show have refused to evolve and grow, and thus neither has the series, not really. I've never seen a show so resistant to change, especially when it comes to the popularity of one of its characters.
For seven years I've felt that Dean gave more than he ever received - from anybody and everybody - and I don't think it's just a feeling, but instead a truism, and that fact right there speaks to the continually widening disconnect between fans of the characters, especially those of the supposed two leads. A disconnect I have come to believe is actually fostered by the producers.
Well, I see the problem as more of a writing one and not so much a problem between Dean and the other characters. I think the writers have just fallen in love with telling things through Dean's perspective--for whatever reason--and they feel all burrowed in and don't want to budge on it.
I really feel it the most when it seems like the show is putting them in similar situations over and over, and when it gets to the point that I can predict everything Dean and Bobby are going to say to each other about Sam, etc., because they've been there before... I just wish they'd change things up a little. But I doubt they will. It's very ~comfortable~ now.
And this is why I can't stand any character of the so-called team besides Dean. And Castiel. Because while even Cas has gotten more plot than Dean (who hasn't), he has the decency to talk to Dean like a person, to treat him with respect.
Not to mention I don't buy into this plot/POV devide. So what? That's in a rulebook somewhere? The writers decide who gets the plot. First was Sam, last Season the main story was about Cas, this Season Bobby has the clearest supernatural plot of all. So what, everybody BUT Dean? Screw you, show. Very, very much so.
I still love all of the characters of TFW with a passion; nothing in my research changed my opinion on that. :) Although we don't see/hear them talking about Dean very much at all, we know that some conversations do happen (sadly) off-screen. This is just my opinion, but I see their love for each other but especially for Dean as so very big; it makes for so many beautiful scenes between Dean and the others
( ... )
But there is a bit of fatigue that builds in, not for the characters but for the dialogue and for the plot. It would be a nice change of pace to have more Sam/Cas or Bobby/Cas or Sam/Bobby scenes in which Dean is the topic.
Thing is, Dean technically had a plot in Season 3 and 4. Parts of 5, too, before it was red-herringed away. And you did include those Seasons in your stats, didn't you but they still came out zero for Dean? Which means to me the writers simply don't bother. However, just as that has negative connotations for Dean as a character, it also reflects negatively on the other characters. They talk about all and sundry, just not him, not even when he has a plot
( ... )
I knew there was disparity, but this just brings home how much disparity there was. This really should be sent to the PTBs on SPN, because as can be seen by your very technical graphs, Dean and Dean fans are getting the shaft. And so is Jensen.
I'm not sure how technical my graphs are, hee. :) But thank you.
I do wish Jensen had a story with direction and purpose of his own. They've fallen into a pretty repetitive pattern with the angst. He does it very well, but I still get fatigued by it. i think he has said he'd prefer for Dean to have a little fun, too. I wish they would let him. Maybe a reset like they've been teasing for years...?
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And as far as other characters treating Dean badly, nobody on the show is treated with much respect - they're all criticized, rejected, name-called, hit, accused of less than good motives at various points in the show. Nobody gets the kid-glove treatment, and in fact, Dean is closer and has more connections/better relationships on the show than Sam, with Castiel and Bobby particularly. I figure that's because Dean is more open and warm, so there's a reason for that. They're different characters, after all, and aren't going to have these all-equivalent relationships and character arcs.
I believe you're very passionate about your viewpoint, so I don't think we'll necessarily go along with what the other says, which, you know, happens. A lot:)
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It makes me miss Sam, and miss stories for Dean, but I agree that it's probably the reason for this.
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I'll have to save this to read it several more times, because it's brilliant and sad and depressing - all because it's true, evidence IMO of how the producers of this show have refused to evolve and grow, and thus neither has the series, not really. I've never seen a show so resistant to change, especially when it comes to the popularity of one of its characters.
For seven years I've felt that Dean gave more than he ever received - from anybody and everybody - and I don't think it's just a feeling, but instead a truism, and that fact right there speaks to the continually widening disconnect between fans of the characters, especially those of the supposed two leads. A disconnect I have come to believe is actually fostered by the producers.
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I really feel it the most when it seems like the show is putting them in similar situations over and over, and when it gets to the point that I can predict everything Dean and Bobby are going to say to each other about Sam, etc., because they've been there before... I just wish they'd change things up a little. But I doubt they will. It's very ~comfortable~ now.
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than Dean (who hasn't), he has the decency to talk to Dean like a person, to treat him with respect.
Not to mention I don't buy into this plot/POV devide. So what? That's in a rulebook somewhere? The writers decide who gets the plot. First was Sam, last Season the main story was about Cas, this Season Bobby has the clearest supernatural plot of all. So what, everybody BUT Dean? Screw you, show. Very, very much so.
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Thing is, Dean technically had a plot in Season 3 and 4. Parts of 5, too, before it was red-herringed away. And you did include those Seasons in your stats, didn't you but they still came out zero for Dean? Which means to me the writers simply don't bother. However, just as that has negative connotations for Dean as a character, it also reflects negatively on the other characters. They talk about all and sundry, just not him, not even when he has a plot ( ... )
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thanks for all this
hermit
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I do wish Jensen had a story with direction and purpose of his own. They've fallen into a pretty repetitive pattern with the angst. He does it very well, but I still get fatigued by it. i think he has said he'd prefer for Dean to have a little fun, too. I wish they would let him. Maybe a reset like they've been teasing for years...?
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