On one hand, I'm afraid that these two episodes were a build-up for Rose not staying, pointing out that she's not needed because eventually the Doctor's going to have River Song. Wah! Let's hope not. Because the weird thing about the Doctor/River relationship is that he's having to preserve the timeline the entire time. So can he really risk her the way he can the people whose history is being made up as they go along? Picnics and such - yes, let there be more of those in Ten's future (seconding the wanting-him-to-be-happy) but knowing the whole time that she's going to die and visiting her in her timeline whenever he misses her or feels like a break? Hurrrrr.
While I would prefer that Moffat be a douche (since I'm not sure I'd want to watch S5 anyway), I think the more likely option is that introducing River Song right now was intentional. Bah. Just so long as Rose is in character I won't care. :(
I'm very glad that she's alive, of sorts--and more importantly, that the Doctor was able to save her, since I think he needed that. But since it seems she's a data ghost now, and probably unable to ever get to the real world again as something alive, I couldn't help but contrast her reaction to being permanently separated from the Doctor to Rose's. It also suggests that the Doctor thinks living indefinitely as a data ghost - no character development, no living, no way to communicate, no real power - is better than dying. This is the second time he's done this in canon (third if you count the 'What's wrong with Martha' comic) and it... bothers me.
You're thinking of Astrid, right? Because what immediately popped into my mind right there is Ursula from Love and Monsters, and how she ended up really disturbed me. And now that you've brought this up...yeah. Even more disturbing.
Because what immediately popped into my mind right there is Ursula from Love and Monsters Waaaaah, I forgot about that. I mean, living forever could be workable under certain circumstances but... not like that. That's not living!
Why should the audience or the Doctor care, when everyone knows that off in the nebulous future, the Doctor will be happy with this woman?
On the other hand, it's an established fact of the show that the Doctor has lots of experience with losing people, and he knows about time -- enough to know that he SHOULDN'T know when he's meant to meet River again, and dwelling on it will only bring season three redux lots and lots of angst. What he's learning this season is to focus on his own present instead of the past (Rose, Gallifrey), and this episode sort of turns that on its head and teaches him to focus on the present instead of the future -- so that the future can still happen. Don't mess with the timelines, don't read the spoilers. Just let the present happen, and let the future come when it will. I don't think having River somewhere in his indeterminate future (10 years down the line? 200?) will interfere with his joy at Rose's return.
Well, I don't really think he'd be less happy at having Rose back knowing that River is in his future, but it feels like it wouldn't be so devastating should she leave again at the end, because of that future--for the audience, and maybe even him. Which is...probably a good thing, because I don't want the Doctor to hurt, but it's still something I resent because I think it makes it easier for Rose to leave, and I will be angry if that happens.
I'm not sure he's been learning to live in the present--he's been doing that all along, or he would never have been happy in S1 or S2. And he should always have already known not to mess with the future, which is why I'm not happy he was constantly asking her who she was to him.
The main reasons I am angry about Doctor/River are that it makes it easier to let Rose go, and I just plain don't like River, and for someone who supposedly knew him so well, she didn't seem to know him at all. I don't want that in the Doctor's future, and now I'm stuck with it.
Someone commented on my LJ with the best-ever theory that is both pro-River and pro-Rose, which, yay. The idea (well, my reading of HER idea) is that he spent season three actively closing himself off again, after having been so open with Rose -- which is why he's so comfortable with Donna. She wants nothing to do with him romantically, so he's totally okay with that. But he's still shut down, as we see in ALL his interactions with River. He's very terse with her, which is a mixture of "Who the fuck are you?" AND "If you are implying what I think you're implying, then you've got the wrong guy
( ... )
Optimistic enough to, say, not be afraid of being close with Rose, because things might not end up badly after all?
I'd like that as an outcome, but given my reading of the D/River relationship, I'm not sure it could lead to that kind of thing. It's a cool theory, but just not one I can believe.
It seems like the Doctor was an idiot through most of the episode. It seems like he maybe should've made sure they were all wearing their helmets AT ALL TIMES. It seems like he maybe got people killed who could've been saved - oh, but wait, then they couldn't have been in the happyhappyjoyjoy virtual world at the end if they'd been left alive, could they? *eyeroll*
As for the rest of it... *sigh* Word. So much word.
Moffat seems to like making the Doctor an idiot. Either that or he doesn't realize what he's doing, and I'm not sure which is worse. I'm still in awe over how utterly bad this episode was.
Comments 12
Wah! Let's hope not. Because the weird thing about the Doctor/River relationship is that he's having to preserve the timeline the entire time. So can he really risk her the way he can the people whose history is being made up as they go along? Picnics and such - yes, let there be more of those in Ten's future (seconding the wanting-him-to-be-happy) but knowing the whole time that she's going to die and visiting her in her timeline whenever he misses her or feels like a break? Hurrrrr.
While I would prefer that Moffat be a douche (since I'm not sure I'd want to watch S5 anyway), I think the more likely option is that introducing River Song right now was intentional. Bah.
Just so long as Rose is in character I won't care. :(
Reply
It also suggests that the Doctor thinks living indefinitely as a data ghost - no character development, no living, no way to communicate, no real power - is better than dying. This is the second time he's done this in canon (third if you count the 'What's wrong with Martha' comic) and it... bothers me.
Reply
Reply
Waaaaah, I forgot about that. I mean, living forever could be workable under certain circumstances but... not like that. That's not living!
Reply
On the other hand, it's an established fact of the show that the Doctor has lots of experience with losing people, and he knows about time -- enough to know that he SHOULDN'T know when he's meant to meet River again, and dwelling on it will only bring season three redux lots and lots of angst. What he's learning this season is to focus on his own present instead of the past (Rose, Gallifrey), and this episode sort of turns that on its head and teaches him to focus on the present instead of the future -- so that the future can still happen. Don't mess with the timelines, don't read the spoilers. Just let the present happen, and let the future come when it will. I don't think having River somewhere in his indeterminate future (10 years down the line? 200?) will interfere with his joy at Rose's return.
Reply
I'm not sure he's been learning to live in the present--he's been doing that all along, or he would never have been happy in S1 or S2. And he should always have already known not to mess with the future, which is why I'm not happy he was constantly asking her who she was to him.
The main reasons I am angry about Doctor/River are that it makes it easier to let Rose go, and I just plain don't like River, and for someone who supposedly knew him so well, she didn't seem to know him at all. I don't want that in the Doctor's future, and now I'm stuck with it.
Reply
Reply
I'd like that as an outcome, but given my reading of the D/River relationship, I'm not sure it could lead to that kind of thing. It's a cool theory, but just not one I can believe.
Reply
As for the rest of it... *sigh* Word. So much word.
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment