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[roga]

WTF, genealogy? Man, I wish I could trace my family that far back, or that I were running for President* so that someone would care enough to do it for me. Sadly, I can only go back four generations, ie my grandparents' grandparents

Comments

[eumelia]

LOL

;D

[roga]

I'm a bit too tired to get whether you're being ironic or not, which is a big boo for me :-( But I think it depends on how you define "people". On the one hand, I absolutely do not want to say I'm Jewish because of genetics. On the other, I'm not a religious Jew - at all - but I still feel Jewish, and part of the Jewish people, whoever they may be. So it's different definitions of "people". I think. (I'm tired?)

Three unrelated responses

[therealjae]

The "natural-born citizen" clause is nothing but anti-immigrant claptrap, say I.

Feel free to answer or not answer depending on how philosophical/contentious you feel: Does one's identity necessarily have to do with one's blood?

Finally, something I've been thinking about: isn't it kind of amazing, given how precisely "In Treatment" follows "Betipul," that spoilers about what happens next haven't leaked out? Is there some sort of Israeli conspiracy not to spoil da Americans?

-J

Two related responses

[roga]

Does one's identity necessarily have to do with one's blood?

Necessarily? Absolutely not. Does it influence? Yeah, I think it does. Just like I'm sure - based on instinct, not research, so I may be wrong - that finding out you're adopted makes you question your self-identity, finding out you don't belong to a certain "people" would do the same. Except that phrasing it that way takes it for granted that there is in fact a "people" and that you belong or don't belong to it by virtue of your blood. Which is complicated in the case of Judaism, because [classical] Judaism itself defines who belongs to it by blood, and for many years (especially recent years, of course, especially things like the Nuremberg laws) that was the way others defined Jews too. So if I'm not Jewish by blood, and I'm not Jewish through religion (I am, but I'm really an atheist), then how am I even Jewish? Because I do feel Jewish, identity-wise. Any my answer to that is that I'm part of the Jewish people, that share the same history (well, not really) and customs (

Re: Two related responses

[therealjae]

Wow, we are totally coming from different places on the blood thing. I actually think we don't have any influences from our blood histories at all. I think we can believe we do (although I don't believe that for me), but our real influences come from our environments. So there is a huge part of me that's culturally Irish-American, but that isn't because my ancestors were Irish-American, it's because I grew up with parents who both grew up in working-class Irish-American families and had a lot of Irish-American cultural practices. It's not about being a "rational, atheist being," either, it's about recognizing that your great-great-great grandparents don't realistically shape who you become, but your immediate environment sure does

Re: Two related responses

[roga]

I actually think we don't have any influences from our blood histories at all. I think we can believe we do

Well, if I'm getting you right, then our opinions aren't that far apart. I don't thing that the blood, the biology itself is what influences us, but if "we believe we do", well, then, that's influence right there.

And for me... well, I do feel like my great great grandparents shaped who I've become. Not directly, but by keeping their lifestyle the way it was (when they could do easily gone to live in European cities, say, 150 years ago and given up Judaism altogether), and then all of them choosing to immigrate to the land of Palestine a few decades before Israel was born... that is part of my identity. I dunno, maybe it shouldn't be, but I do feel that connection with history, of how I got to live where I do today and not in any other place or circumstances

[npkedit]

Sigh. Your soon-to-be-professor sounds like a left-wing nut who should be tarred and feathered (ok...I'm kidding...mostly). So says the Orthodox Jew who can trace her apparently non-Jewish lineage back for centuries. Granted, even today's religious Jews believe we're descended from only 3 of the original 12, but that's still something. Plus, we're one of the few religions that actively discourages conversion. And being Jewish hasn't exactly been a popular option in the last several thousand years. It mostly got you killed, slaughtered, beaten, or what have you

[roga]

I know, it seems so unlikely, which is why I'm curious to see how he explains it all. Don't know if I'll read it, though.

And I'd forgotten about the Kohanim DNA, huh. Although I'm not sure if that would contradict his theory; Cohens might have shared DNA, but that doesn't mean the rest of the Jewish people do - they're still a rather small percentage. (And btw, I am incredibly envious that you can trace your family that far back! As I said, I can go back to the late 19th century, but there are no records beyond that.I really wish there were.)

What do you mean 25-year resident requirement? You mean, they'd have to live there for 25 years, instead of just 14?

Also, happy birthday! :-)

[npkedit]

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

Yes, that people would have had to have lived in the U.S. at least 25 years before they'd be allowed to run for president.

As for the family tracing: It's probably easier because my father is a Levi and it's way easier to trace on one's father's side. Was very cool when we were in Teverya 4 years ago and we went to the Shlah's kever--he's in my family tree.

[roga]

Holy wow, that's amazing. Wow. It stuns me that records are kept that far back anywhere in Judaism, really - I'm so used to anything pre-20th century being lost... Do you know the genealogy on your mother's side, too?