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WTF, genealogy? Man, I wish I could trace my family that far back, or that I were running for President* so that someone would care enough to do it for me. Sadly, I can only go back four generations, ie my grandparents' grandparents
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Necessarily? Absolutely not. Does it influence? Yeah, I think it does. Just like I'm sure - based on instinct, not research, so I may be wrong - that finding out you're adopted makes you question your self-identity, finding out you don't belong to a certain "people" would do the same. Except that phrasing it that way takes it for granted that there is in fact a "people" and that you belong or don't belong to it by virtue of your blood. Which is complicated in the case of Judaism, because [classical] Judaism itself defines who belongs to it by blood, and for many years (especially recent years, of course, especially things like the Nuremberg laws) that was the way others defined Jews too. So if I'm not Jewish by blood, and I'm not Jewish through religion (I am, but I'm really an atheist), then how am I even Jewish? Because I do feel Jewish, identity-wise. Any my answer to that is that I'm part of the Jewish people, that share the same history (well, not really) and customs (not really) and language (not... really...) and religion (...kinda...). And who the "Jewish people" is/are, and where they came from, matters to me.
Um, I lost track of where I was going. My conclusion, I guess, is my first line: not necessarily, but it definitely has an influence on how you consider yourself and in relation to others. (Unless you are an entirely rational, atheist being, a citizen of the world, with no religious or national identity at all. In which case, I don't know how to define identity at all.)
Is there some sort of Israeli conspiracy not to spoil da Americans?
Hee, no, Israelis aren't that generous :-) I think that in order to have spoilers you need to have a dedicated fanbase on both sides, and: 1) There isn't much of a fandom for anything in Israel, let alone Israeli shows. It's not the sort of show that draws the kind of people who build fansites and the like, just like the American version hasn't. 2) There'd have to be interaction between the Israeli and American fandoms for spoilers to come out, and like I've said, there aren't much of any. you can even see that the wikipedia page for Betipul is almost empty and hardly mentions the second season, compared to the Hebrew wikipedia page which is much more detailed, though it still doesn't have that much in it. 3) The American version only starts airing here next week. I doubt many people, especially fans, have taken the time to download it beforehand and get invested in it, enough to want to interact online. I know my roommate is a huge fan of the show, and she couldn't get through one week of the American version (which she downloaded out of curiosity, like myself), because she already knew what was going to happen and she liked the Israeli cast better.
4) As for myself, though, I've actually wanted to mention stuff I liked about the second season, but didn't because I didn't want to spoil anyone who might be watching, and figured since I was probably the only one on my flist who watched the Israeli version, it'd just be talking to myself.
Do you want spoilers? BECAUSE I CAN TOTALLY GIVE THEM TO YOU. Even tiny ones! Like which of the characters stay on in S2! And who the patients are! And link you to mucho spoilery videos that are in Hebrew so you wouldn't understand them anyway! Just say the word :-)
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So I would agree that you are part of the Jewish people, but from where I sit, that's because, well...you're Jewish! You, personally, not your ancestors. Your family is Jewish and your environment is Jewish and you have Jewish cultural practices. Those things make you a lot more part of the Jewish people than someone who had a couple of Jewish ancestors 200 years ago but is a born-again Christian in the suburban U.S. and has never met a real Jew. You know?
As for spoilers about "In Treatment," well...on some level I must want them, because I was looking for them! But I'm conflicted. I guess I think we're close enough to the end of the story that I'd rather just wait. Although I'd love to know which characters stay on in season two--that's not spoilery about the current storyline except in vague ways. So bring that on, please!
-J
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Well, if I'm getting you right, then our opinions aren't that far apart. I don't thing that the blood, the biology itself is what influences us, but if "we believe we do", well, then, that's influence right there.
And for me... well, I do feel like my great great grandparents shaped who I've become. Not directly, but by keeping their lifestyle the way it was (when they could do easily gone to live in European cities, say, 150 years ago and given up Judaism altogether), and then all of them choosing to immigrate to the land of Palestine a few decades before Israel was born... that is part of my identity. I dunno, maybe it shouldn't be, but I do feel that connection with history, of how I got to live where I do today and not in any other place or circumstances.
Saying "you're Jewish!" is a bit... simplistic, because what makes me Jewish? What does being Jewish mean? If you came here and rented an apartment next to me and learned Hebrew and lit candles in Hannukah without ever officially converting, would you consider yourself Jewish? Because when it comes to the religion itself, I am about 0.5% Jewish, maybe even less, and it's about the rituals, not the beliefs. I mean, I do consider myself Jewish, but it has to do with the blood connection and shared history as well. It strengthens my connection with being Jewish, at least.
Yay spoilers! *g* Okay, so I'll just tell you the very basics:
-Paul continues to go to his shrink on Thursdays (I guess Fridays for you)
-Jake and Amy continue to come to therapy, along with a new character - their kid (and omg, he has such a great storyline, that takes so much guts for that 11/12-year-old actor - it's not really a spoiler, but I won't tell you unless you ask.)
-New (and really good) characters on Wed and Tues; Tues, especially, is an amazing, respected Israeli actor.
-There's a new patient on Sundays, who has a history with Paul, and the storyline has something to do with Alex. However, I don't know how it's going to play out in the US. In Israel, Alex's dad was played by Israel Poliakov, a legendary actor, who unexpectedly died after filming the first episode of season 2, his very last role. So Alex's dad appears in the first episode, triggers the storyline, and that's it. Since the American version can still use Alex's dad, I don't know how closely they'll follow the Israeli plotline (or any of the other characters', really. S2 seems like a good place to branch off a bit.)
Anything else you're curious about?
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So you DON'T think the biology actually influences you, but, wait, you DO believe it influences you, and so it influences you? I'm not following that.
This is what I meant when I said what I said: "Our ancestors don't actually influence us. Some people believe their ancestors influence them, but those people are mistaken."
I mean, yes, certainly my ancestors had an influence on the path my life took by immigrating to the U.S. instead of staying in Ireland. But the direct influences on my life, i.e., the things that make me culturally Irish-American, came not from them, but from my parents. Any direct connection I might feel to my immigrant ancestors is a romantic myth, not reality. And most importantly, if I were to find out that my ancestors weren't actually Irish but French (it happens!), I wouldn't be any less culturally Irish-American. I'd still have grown up with those cultural practices, and they'd still be a part of who I am.
Saying "you're Jewish!" is a bit... simplistic, because what makes me Jewish?
Lots of things--you mentioned some of them, I mentioned others. There are almost certainly a lot more. But blood isn't one of them--not from where I sit.
-J
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I don't think that's something you cab actually decide. Since a person's self identity is entirely subjective, if that person's influenced by blood relations, well, then, they'll be influenced by it, whether you think they're mistaken or not. You could say that people shouldn't be influenced by it in developing their self identity because it's irrelevant, but I don't think you can claim that they aren't. That's what I meant.
As for being Jewish, it's a combination of a lot of things. In the army, we actually had a few self identity seminars about what it means to each of us to be Jewish, to be Israeli, etc. Needless to say I came out of there more confused than ever - it's all much simpler when you don't start thinking about things. But "what makes me Jewish?" isn't an easy question to answer logically. It's subjective, but what others think matters too, in this case.
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Do you really think that identity is entirely subjective? I mean, if I want to identify as an African man, I'm not going to fool very many people. Or to bring it back around to a real-world situation, if I want to pretend that I've left the U.S. so far behind that I'm no longer a product of the American culture, I'm not going to fool anyone but myself.
-J
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Okay, that I'm with you 100% - I guess we were using "influence" differently, because I don't think anything I have in common with other Jews is actually based on having "Jewish blood" flow through our veins - absolutely not. I was referring to how having a blood-connection to the rest of the Jewish people, to your ancestors who were also Jews (maybe), influences the way you perceive yourself, the way you identify as part of the culture. Not, like, makes you like gefilte fish and have a hot temper.
Do you really think that identity is entirely subjective?
Well, I think that self identity is. I mean, it might be something that's hard for others to accept, but in the end, if that's how you feel, if that's how you see yourself, then that's how you identify. If you identify as a man strongly enough to undergo a sex-change operation, or live your life as a man, then that's how you're gonna see yourself, no matter what others say. Others may see you as something else, and that's gonna be their problem - and possibly your problem too, if they don't accept you. For example, I might decide to convert to Catholicism and identify myself as a Catholic, but Orthodox Jews are still going to identify me as Jewish because there's no such thing as converting out of Judaism in Jewish law, and Nazis will still identify me as Jewish because one of my grandparents is Jewish and that's enough for them. I think self identity is what you truly believe about yourself, and where you feel you belong; so if you "pretended" to leave the US so far behind etc, you wouldn't be fooling anyone, including yourself. If you truly believed you weren't American at all, if you didn't consider yourself American, then yeah, I guess you'd answer "no" to the question "Are you American?". You might say you were raised there or you used to be, but you wouldn't call yourself an American. I wouldn't go so far as saying you weren't a product of American culture, though; that's not the same as identifying as an American. (Hell, there are millions of people around the world who are products of American culture and have never set foot in America.)
I feel like I may be leaning too much on the semantics of your question instead of the content. In the end, I think however you define yourself is subjective, but that the trouble is figuring out what you identify as and why. I mean, it could be something you take for granted and never question, or it could be something you think about and figure out. And therein lies the headache.
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The scene with Alex's dad was amazing--I desperately hope we see more of him. The character was played by the guy who played the mayor on the Wire, but he was even better here.
Thanks for the spoilers! I'd better stop there, though.
-J
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And okay, no more spoilers. Unless you just want to see a picture of the second season cast. Which I only LINKED to, so you don't have to actually see it! :-)
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-J
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-J
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