Unreasonable Expectations? (Part 2 of 2)

[rj_anderson]

In yesterday's post we discussed whether or not it's a reasonable expectation that protagonists should always be pushing the plot forward or otherwise taking decisive action in order to justify their place at the center of the book

Comments

[rj_anderson]

Oh, that's a good example, about suspense! Yes, sometimes the reader knowing something before the characters do can be used to advantage, as well. It's only when the characters behave stupidly (rather than just in understandable ignorance) that it becomes frustrating.

[rj_anderson]

I find fewer examples of characters behaving outright stupidly in books than I used to. Either I'm getting better at picking books, or I made the right decision in switching to MG and YA fiction, which is more rigorously edited than just about any other genre I know of...

[deva_fagan]

I think all your points are excellent! And yes, I think the key is ensuring that a character has good and believable reasons for not figuring something out if it's already obvious to the reader.

I also think there is a certain type of tension that can be very fun to experience as a reader, when you do know something is going to happen before the character. You start to anticipate what the character's reaction will be when they do find out, and this can add extra layers of enjoyment (whether the surprise is good or bad).

One thing I particularly enjoy is when you have two or more narrators, and you the reader can put the two together to can predict what is going to happen at a certain point (say when the two characters meet). Not sure if that exactly falls into the category of books being discussed, though.

I'll have to think more on particular examples...

[rj_anderson]

One thing I particularly enjoy is when you have two or more narrators, and you the reader can put the two together to can predict what is going to happen at a certain point (say when the two characters meet).

Ooh, yes! I love books like that, too. Although I did read one about twenty years ago that annoyed me to tears, because the author insisted on telling us pretty much all the same events from both points of view. It was "two steps forward, one step back" for the entire book, even after the characters met. And that was definitely a case where the my lack of surprise worked against my enjoyment of the book.

[sollersuk]

The book I'm working on has alternate narrators. The only time they recount the same event is when one has seen a bit of it (and misinterpreted what is going on). They also misunderstand each other frequently, which from time to time builds up a lot of extra tension; though when it's a really bad misunderstanding it gets resolved before the reader (I hope) wants to kick both of their arses really hard. And tucked away in all this is a piece of information which the reader may remember or may not, but the MMC doesn't really take in, which is a clue to why later on in the book other people treat him the way they do; if the reader doesn't remember it they may get as big a shock as he does, but if they do, they will have the fun of being like a pantomime audience shouting "Behind you!"

[rj_anderson]

Sounds like an interesting book! I don't mind misunderstandings from time to time, but I do get annoyed when they're the kind of misunderstandings that any sensible person either wouldn't have in the first place, or could clear up simply by asking one or two questions instead of leaping to some ridiculous conclusion...

[scionofgrace]

I agree totally. It's not whether we know what the twist is, it's whether a) we weren't supposed to know and the author totally failed in the subtlety/foreshadowing department, or b) we're supposed to know, just for the dramatic tension. And you can build a fair amount of dramatic tension if you know what you're doing.

Or at least get a nicely awkward, even funny, scene in.

Like the Doctor Who episode "School Reunion." About half the audience knew perfectly well who "Miss Smith" was, and thus were in on the joke when the Doctor is showering her with compliments but can't blow his cover in front of the villains. Even those who didn't know her knew what was going on by the time she spotted the TARDIS. Like you said, it was all about the reactions, and the look on her face when she realized who the scrawny physics teacher really was. That revelation wasn't the point of the story, but it provided another step in her emotional journey through the episode

[rj_anderson]

I like the music analogy (and the Doctor Who example, because I really loved seeing SJS and the Doctor reunite in that episode) very much -- and this too:

It's not whether we know what the twist is, it's whether a) we weren't supposed to know and the author totally failed in the subtlety/foreshadowing department, or b) we're supposed to know, just for the dramatic tension.

Succinctly put.

[sartorias]

I think surprises become more difficult the more one reads, especially one's favorite kinds of story. We humans do have our patterns, and the longer we read, the more obvious some patterns, and meta patterns become

[rj_anderson]

I think surprises become more difficult the more one reads, especially one's favorite kinds of story. We humans do have our patterns, and the longer we read, the more obvious some patterns, and meta patterns become.

Oh, yes, very much this. Although I'm sometimes amazed at how obvious and predictable some people find books in my genre that I found entirely surprising, so I think sometimes it's not just how many books you've read in your genre but which ones, too. If you've read all the same ones as the author, you might indeed guess where she's headed before she gets there, when somebody else might think her terribly original and clever.

And patterns are lovely, yes. That's why I enjoy re-reading books with twists even a little bit more than I enjoyed reading them and being surprised by them the first time -- because looking at the pattern is so satisfying.

[megancrewe]

Mostly I just agree with everything you said. *thumbs up* But I also think it's worth pointing out--it's impossible to properly surprise all of your readers. Some readers are going to pick up on foreshadowing and clues faster and more accurately than others. If you make a surprise so surprising even the most astute readers never suspected before the reveal, then the least astute readers will probably feel more blindsided than pleasantly surprised (because even looking back, the clues will be too subtle to see). So I think as an author you have to find a reasonable balance, and be sure that your story is enjoyable regardless of how surprising its surprises are; that surprising the reader is icing on an already yummy cake. ;)

[rj_anderson]

Mm, cake.

That's a very good way of putting it. I know many people who felt that the twists in Megan Whalen Turner's The Thief and Claudia Gray's Evernight, for instance, were insufficiently foreshadowed and therefore "cheating"; but I didn't feel that way when I read either of those books, I was just delighted by the twists when they happened. And in the case of The Thief, I enjoyed going over the book again when I read it out loud to my son, and picking up all the clues I'd missed the first time, so then I really didn't agree with the complaints against it.