Unreasonable Expectations? (Part 2 of 2)

[rj_anderson]

In yesterday's post we discussed whether or not it's a reasonable expectation that protagonists should always be pushing the plot forward or otherwise taking decisive action in order to justify their place at the center of the book

Comments

[pontisbright]

More lovely food for thought. I like my surprises either way, predictable/foreshadowed (thus a pat on the head for me for paying attention) or genuinely startling (pat on the head for the author; bonus pat if I then sit back and think of all the ways I could've seen it coming, thus proving that it was an, um, in-character-for-the-narrative surprise). Aaaand now I would give you examples of satisfying revelations and shocking twists, except my brain is being unhelpful with such things. Though since it's in my mind due to the movie coming out, Kazuo Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go is a headscratcher for me, as to my mind the reveal is revealed on page 1 and the book is about slowly interrogating the specifics, whereas others seem to be surprised by it later in the text. I've honestly no idea which is intended (which is maybe why I found it unsatisfying: no pat on the head, just an odd sense that I might be reading it wrong).

What intrigues me is the fact that a lot of readers never read with the intention of 'guessing the surprise' or

[rj_anderson]

I think you probably are thinking of the same Scruffy. One of these days I really will get around to writing that Jared/Claudia fic...

I really need to read that Ishiguro book. I was thinking that because the movie trailer gives the "twist" away, and some people were quite angry about that, that it must be a very big twist that was never meant to be spoiled -- but if you guessed it on Page 1, it can't be that subtle. And I like the idea of exploring the repercussions of a known situation and watching the characters interrogate the specifics, too.

[scarvenartist]

Mm, this is awesome, and I thoroughly agree. I love a story that can surprise me, particularly the kind that can reverse my expectations yet leave a definable trail behind it that is only clear on retrospect--but I don't believe it's really possible to construct a story in which a development is simultaneously surprising to the character and every single reader. Mostly because everyone goes into a book with different expectations, and varying degrees of awareness. I'm extremely aware of tropes and structures so I can usually tell simply by what a writer emphasizes the kind of thematic implications all those things will have on the end result. Not to say that books don't ever surprise me, because they definitely do, but I guess I just don't expect to be taken on the exact same internal journey as the character, touching the exact same points of realization. I find the point where foreshadowing collides entirely satisfying in the moment, whether or not it happens the exact moment the character experiences it

[rj_anderson]

I find the point where foreshadowing collides entirely satisfying in the moment, whether or not it happens the exact moment the character experiences it.

Oh, I like that! That's very much how I feel, too.

And a very appropriate choice of icon for "Scruffy". :D

[stephaniecain]

All I think necessary is for the characters to have a plausible reason not to realize the truth until a certain time

I think you hit the nail on the head with this. There are times that it's wonderful to be surprised--surprised and confused (I'm still not sure I really understood The Westing Game)--or surprised and enlightened because it makes perfect sense in retrospect. There are also times that the irony and dramatic tension is reliant on the reader knowing more than the MC knows. Can't think of any specific examples at the moment, but I probably experienced that with Harry Potter at some point

[mary_j_59]

I can't resist. You don't know me - I'm just a livejournal friend of RJ's from the Potter fandom - but here is what I guessed would happen in DH

[dichroic]

Josephine Tey's Brat Farrar seems like a good example to me on both counts. He makes a choice at the beginning that changes everything, but after that for a lot of the book he's just waiting to see what happens next. He can't solve the mystery because first he has to realize that there even is a mystery, and then he needs to wait a while to learn what happened. But we have a good enough insight into him to know what he wants, and to see when his waiting makes sense. (He and a number of the other characters in the books are very introverted, and I've always thought the amount of insight we get into them is brilliant characterization on Tey's part.)

It's not hard for a reader to guess his parentage, either, given clues planted early in the book. Bt he's got reasons - distraction, mostly - for not thinking much about it, and there's no reason for any other character to consider it until the very end.

[rj_anderson]

I've seen the old (80's, I think?) adaptation of Brat Farrar -- I really must read the book, though.

[dichroic]

No idea how the movie is, but the book is wonderful - her best, I think.

[mary_j_59]

The examples I was going to give have already been given, and eloquently, by several other people. So all I can say is: I agree. As I said on twitter, having a reader know what a character doesn't is a legitimate means of building suspense. I don't mind that at all. It's especially effective when the writer is clear and honest about her (his) characters' points of veiw. If I, as a reader, believe in the characters and understand why they don't know what I know, I'm not bothered by that artful dissonance

[rj_anderson]

Hee! I like the jumping story. That makes the point very well.