Avengers Assemble: Wherein I say a lot about something I don't really have much to say about.

[rheasilvia]

Several weeks ago, I watched Avengers. I thought it was rather fun, but don't have stronger feelings about it than that. There was one plot hole which irritated both me and the unfannish friend who watched the movie with me, however.

Comments

[rheasilvia]

Everyone on *my* tumblr dash is shipping Steve/Tony as the adoptive parents of Peter Parker...

Tony does get his science nerd on with Bruce in a very cute manner - more of a "let's be science BFFs!" thing, but yeah, I can see way more slashiness there than with Steve.

He flirts more with Loki than anyone else except Pepper, though. (Yes, really. *g*)

[synekdokee]

He flirts more with Loki than anyone else except Pepper, though.

Oh my god thank you I'm not the only one who saw that XD

[rheasilvia]

You're definitely not the only one! Not only did he offer him a drink, he actually made a joke about not getting it up... and while snarky and bantery is standard Tony, especially in stressful situations, there was really no reason for it all to come out so flirty.

IMO, Tony's an adrenaline junkie, and the fact that he was terrified only made the situation more exciting to him.

[astri13]

But the second time, he actively worked with the Avengers. Not only did he not attack them, he also went out of his way to save Tony. Uhm, sorry, movie, but for a change as drastic and vital as this, there really needs to be an explanation.

I agree, this seemed a bit fast. I can fanwank to a degree that it harkened back to the conversation Bruce had with Tony earlier about control ultimately being achieved through acceptance and that in the end Bruce accepted the Hulk whereas before he distanced himself from him "the other guy" but it was quite a steep lurning curve. :D

Of course, I'm also willing to cut the movie more slack because on the whole I loved it. I thought Whedon avoided the big potential pitfalls and used the whole ensemble well.

In German, "remember" is a transitive verb, for god's sake.* Two gods shouting at each other should not use such suspect grammar, especially not twice in a row.

What did they say? I have only seen the movie in English so far.

[rheasilvia]

Yeah, we also brainstormed explanations for the change in the Hulk's behavior - we thought it might have been that he hulked out on purpose the second time. Your theory also sounds good, but yeah, that is some learning curve. :-)

I'm not really happy with the thought of a development process / acceptance that takes place so quickly. It doesn't seem believable. Maybe that's why they left out the explanation completely and let viewers come to their own conclusions...?

Not really a good solution either, though. Whatever the cause, it should have been made very clear, IMO, and it wasn't. *gnarfle*

What did they say? I have only seen the movie in English so far. It wasn't showing in English, unfortunately; I usually prefer to avoid translations, because there so often seem to be issues like this

[gwendolen]

Thor: Ich erinnere unsere Kindheit in Asgard, und blablabla!
Loki: Ich erinnere auch unsere Kindheit, aber es war ganz anders, blablabla!

Autsch. Megaautsch.

Erklärungsversuch? Teilweise Maschinenübersetzung ohne Lektorat hinter. Kaum Budget für einen Übersetzer, weshalb dann sowas bei rauskommt.
Wobei Synchro-Übersetzungen eigentlich umgeschrieben werden um auf die Mundbewegungen zu passen. Es hätte jemandem auffallen müssen, spätestens des Synchronsprechern, von denen man erwartete, dass sie Deutsch können.

[rheasilvia]

Leider ist das (da bin ich sicher) kein Flüchtigkeits- oder Geldmangel-Fehler, sondern eine gewollte Übersetzung, die einfach nur grauenvoll ist. Ich habe nun schon mehrmals "live" gehört, wie "erinnern" intransitiv verwendet wurde - es handelt sich entweder um eine aus dem Englischen übernommene Lehnform oder (scheinbar) um eine Norddeutsche Dialektform.

So oder so ist es gruselig. Sprache wandelt sich zwar, aber manchen Veränderungen sollte man sich so lange wie möglich entgegenstemmen. Die Verwendung passt auch einfach nicht für diese Charaktere - Götter springen in der Regel nicht auf die neuesten Sprachtrends auf. Wenn es nicht gerade supercoole Jugendgötter sind, jedenfalls. ;) Bei Pan würde ich vielleicht noch mit mir reden lassen...

[quietbang94]

I also saw it the other day, which, yay, because now I can go back on tumblr again, and I really did enjoy it.

That said- I mean, obviously there are Problems with Captain America as a concept, and there's a 3000 word lj post in there somewhere, but I thought that Whedon did a really good job of addressing them, and of addressing the inherent moral greyness of a SuperSekrit Team of Superheroes fighting for AMERICA

[rheasilvia]

obviously there are Problems with Captain America as a concept, and there's a 3000 word lj post in there somewhereI would love to read that post, if you ever write it - because, yes, this exactly. The concept of Captain America is sheer propaganda, and propaganda this massive always makes my skin crawl. It really doesn't matter which goverment produces the propaganda in question, it's always very similar

[synekdokee]

I think maybe the Hulk tjing could be explained with how when Banner first transformed, he was still suspicious of the whole Avengers project. Plus I suspect he didn't feel exactly accepted there as people were clearly frightened of his power. And additionally earlier in the film he didn't transform of his own volition

[rheasilvia]

It's a bit hand-wavey but that's the most I can offer X)

I would absolutely have bought that explanation if the movie had explained things to me that way! :-) I really wish they'd just said *something*. They had the chance to set the rules for the Hulk's homicidal/rational transformations however they wished, but not mentioning any reason at all for a pretty damn major change - leaving the viewers to guess and make up their own theories - was a mistake, IMO.

I love RDJ but lately he seems to mostly play a caricatured version of himself.

Yes! He does, doesn't he? It does fit the character of Tony Stark very well, but considering that he played Sherlock Holmes exactly the same way... I think he's actually a very good actor, he just seems to be stuck in a bit of a rut.

I quite enjoyed the final showdown as well, though it was a tad too long. But it wasn't as gratuitous as it could've been.Yeah, they did manage to get many things in that were interesting in terms of characterization, which helped. For example, I (and my friend too,

[synekdokee]

Augh I'd forgotten about the Iron Man one-man finale. Yeah that was a little. Too heavy-handed? And predictable.

But why? It'd be so much fun to see Erik be a total BAMF, really let loose and rip an alien army apart, and then turn around to look at the SHIELD forces with a total poker face....

... and smile.

XDD As soon as the new meme post opens I'm prompting this.

I'm also gonna include a line about Tony's armour totally coincidentally just suddenly falling off of him. These things happen.

And yes, Charles would be busyily facepalming at home while being secretly pleased.

Actually, I wonder if Loki's helmet would stop Charles... Because if not, Charles could get Loki to close the portal thing while Erik takes care of the aliens and it would take less than five minutes of them both. And Charles would raise a brow and go, "I don't really understand what you need five people and a military platoon for."

[rheasilvia]

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[ravyn_ashling]

i enjoyed the movie immensely, so much that i immediately immersed myself in fandom after seeing it. i agree with you about the Hulk thing and the misuse of Early Modern English, though

[rheasilvia]

You're absolutely right, the gender norms problem is another aspect of the "mother's drapes" joke that didn't really work. But, yeah, Tony would absolutely say stuff like that. He may actually be a mutant who has to constantly flap his mouth or suffocate, or some such. ;-)

I've... kind of been dipping my toe into the Tony/Loki pool. Or maybe my leg. So for one thing, I don't like Tony going out with other people! *g* And beyond that, I just can't read fanfic with Steve in a carrying role.

LOL! Thor would probably enjoy being petted, as long as he could quaff some ale while you were doing it. Good choice, really, since he's one of the very few heroes I could see as pettable. *g*

the x-men asked iron man to help them out during a mission-- and then magneto showed up.

LOL! Poor Tony, talk about bad luck... maybe a rain check?