Or what's a beta for? And, is there a beta in your meta?

[red_satin_doll]

ETA 08/02/13: comlodge just re-stated the point in the convo thread below that I was attempting to make re: beta-readers and meta and did so better and far more concisely than I could ever hope to. I bow to her awesomeness.

I just noticed one more empty "pending" slot in the Beta catagory at the Running With Scissors Awards,  which seems odd to me.

Comments

[velvetwhip]

I would nominate my beta, the nonpareil lilbreck, but she has already won and is therefore ineligible. *sigh* She's exceptional and I cannot begin to express how appreciative I am for her honesty and insight.

Gabrielle

[red_satin_doll]

I cannot begin to express how appreciative I am for her honesty and insight.

That sort of appreciation for your beta partner is part of what makes the experience rewarding for me as a beta - it definitely is a partnership at it's best. I treasure those relationships.

I confess I'd never heard of lilbreck before, but that's no suprise. I hear this fandom is getting "smaller" but to me it's still huge and unexplored.

[velvetwhip]

I love being a beta myself; in fact I am my beta's beta and the fact that we have a relationship of mutual trust and honesty is terrific. lilbreck, by the way, is a truly marvelous writer in her own right and I highly recommend checking out her work, which can be found at eclectic_tongue.

Gabrielle

[red_satin_doll]

Thanks for the links, I'll check her out!

And my friend Kendra Saunders and I started out very much the same way over ten years ago, exchanging writing back and forth with one another and critiquing each other's work; I'd easily call her my best friend and that process had a lot to do with it; the trust we place in one another is tremendous.

[red_satin_doll]

a story is generally assumed to be a finished piece when it's posted....In a way the relationship between the writer and the people who respond to the meta replaces the beta process.

Huh. That's a good point and I hadn't thought of it that way before. that is, I'm aware that the two types of writing generate very different types of feedback - we're generally expecting or hoping for in-depth conversation from meta as opposed to fics. But that may also be part of the reason that fanfiction isn't as satisfying to me as a writer. Whereas comments to a meta may very well inspire another meta; and replies may in themselves become "metasplurges" of their own. (A term I'm borrowing from the lovely lanoyeeOTOH, I find for myself I've been very anxious (read: terrified) when I've posted meta here on my journal - not short off the cuff posts like this but the longer ones (as for The Big Damn Love Fest). I wanted them to be as good as possible, to be readable and accessible, to strike an emotional chord; any of the things I would want a story to do. So

[darkgoddessgege]

I have never had any of my fan fiction, or my original fiction for that matter, beta'd. I just haven't found someone that I trust that much I guess. I write differently than most writer's i have come across. Spelling and grammar really doesn't matter to me as much as the character I am writing about. I can always go back and fix that stuff later. Which means my poor Beta would have to be a English giant. :) It's also hard for me to express what i want from a story at an particular time. I will write paragraphs at a time just because I though up a cool line. I am very chaotic when it comes to writing. So my Beta would need to be able to deal with me being all over the place 90% of the time.

[red_satin_doll]

I just haven't found someone that I trust that much I guess

That's definitely a key issue, and the trust goes both ways of course. It's extremely difficult to find. (And being friends in other areas doesn't guarantee a good author-beta partnership.)

Which means my poor Beta would have to be a English giant.

Heh. I tell authors who want me to beta that I am NOT Grammar Queen. ("I before E except after C" is about the extent of it.) I'm always straight-up with what I can and can't do. I'm all for originality of style, poetic forms in prose, etc as long as I understand what the author is trying to convey. Does the style contribute to or impede the story? Which gets back to, what do you want a beta to give you or look for? that's a negotiation between the two people involved.

I will write paragraphs at a time just because I though up a cool line. I am very chaotic when it comes to writing. So my Beta would need to be able to deal with me being all over the place 90% of the time.Are you me? ;-) this is why I always carry notebooks -

[darkgoddessgege]

Are you me? ;-) this is why I always carry notebooks - and why most of what I write goes unfinished. Nifty idea - and then I loose the energy and interest. I should probably write more drabbles.

LOL, I do this all the time. As for writing fan fic...if you notice the only stuff I write are about 100 words...I did try a 500 word one recently. :)

[red_satin_doll]

That should have been spelled "LOSE the energy" of course *ahem*

I haven't read your fics yet *note to self* - I'll have to amend that. My one fic in this fandom is about 640 words and for me is really short and spare. (Compared to any one of my replies in a convo thread.) But I didn't even count the number until about three weeks ago, and I wrote it half a year ago.

I HATE counting words. I'd be the person who tries to write a drabble and comes in at 105 works then racks my brain as to which five to cut.

As to losing interest in a fic - the minute I know the ending in my head (not of a drabble but a longer story esp something that might be multi-chapter) I immediately loose all interest. It's suddenly "done" in my head and I mentally walk away. Definitely lack of discipline.

[rahirah]

That's a good question. Though in a way, when people comment on meta, especially if they disagree with it, the discussion can turn into a sort of open beta as the author clarifies and defends their thesis.... ETA: And Ruuger already said exactly that. Never mind! /Emily Litella

[red_satin_doll]

Never mind! /Emily Litella

[red_satin_doll]

I never tried to steer the plot, but I pointed out when something seemed out of context or if I couldn't picture an action sequence in my mind. We had a really good partnership while it lasted.

That's very much what I've done as a beta-reader for my friends; I let them know right up front I'm not about correcting grammar unless it's glaringly obvious even to me. But I look for the things you do - characterization, flow, readability, logical progression. I had a friend whose work I'd read and I'd ask every once in a while "How did this character get from point A to point B?" She'd say she saw it in her head, but as a reader I can't see what's in her head.

We all do that as writers, don't we? Is there such a thing as a writer who is able to reread their work and spot every error, or every place where they forgot to state something because they saw it in their head and assumed the reader would too?

comlodge just mentioned on another thread here the fact that they had a "beta" for one of their banners who spotted what was missing in the visual

Edited, Ignore earlier version of this reply, please.

[red_satin_doll]

ETA: I just hit the reply button and THEN I read comlodge's reply down thread and she's stated the heart of my argument re: meta but more succinctly and a lot better than I could. http://red-satin-doll.livejournal.com/20858.html?thread=466298#t466298 *bows to comlodge*

BTW - I hope I didn't offend you! You certainly didn't offend me at all & I apologize if my words came across as a bit brusque. Words on the flat screen (or page) don't always capture tone or intent. in I mentioning my own stuff, it's meant as example only. Anyhoodle...I have NO idea why I had to unscreen this to reply btw; I didn't the last time, I haven't changed my settings and I just commented on one of your posts successfully. Weird.

Sometimes I would say "how is that character suddenly sitting down? Last time I pictured him he was standing on the other side of the room"I've had those moments. Currently I am a (sometime) Muse to my best friend and it's been less about "how did they