Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2 x 11: "Ted"

[red_satin_doll]

Originally posted at the Jossverse Big Damn Love Fest: http://big-damn-fest.dreamwidth.org/3818.html

RUNNER-UP: Best Meta (Not Fade Away) category of the Wicked Awards Round 10
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Comments

[kikimay]

I'm glad that that girl didn't have to use her weapon but I really can understand her desire to do it. I think she was really really strong to just survive and become an intelligent and free person. And, yes, I felt also shocked when I read many comments in the ex Buffymaniac, now Serialmente, in which everyone is upset about Buffy's violent reaction and no one is upset about Ted's abusive behaviour. I wish that all the girls in this world could react as Buffy did because sometimes it's really about surviving, especially when a man hits you. So yes, the audience overlooked Ted and overlooked abusive men in BtVS mostly because I believe that we overlook them in RL. We are so used to them that we forget.
I loved the meta and I loved Angearia's quote at the beginning - so perfect - and I'm sending you a big bear hug. Because of reasons.

[red_satin_doll]

Thank you thank you sweetie - I had a feeling you would appreciate it. I'm sending hugs back - no reasons necessary, just because. And Angearia had so many wonderful things to say about that episode I could barely begin to pick the "right" quote - any one of twenty would have done equally well.

I felt also shocked when I read many comments in the ex Buffymaniac, now Serialmente, in which everyone is upset about Buffy's violent reaction and no one is upset about Ted's abusive behaviour.The same attitude on American sites - we talked about this on your LJ a little before - is what inspired me to write this entry. (I was originally going to write about "Him" for the Big Damn Love Fest.) And that attitude was prevalent even on a site with an openly "feminist" orientation. "Feminist" does not mean we all believe the same thing, of course; but the attitude that "Buffy went over the line" was not only nearly-universal, but it became the focus to the exclusion of everything else in the episode

[kikimay]

I completely agree on every point: the stabbing of the Mayor's assistant is enterely something else, something really tragic but in a different way and for me it wasn't about Buffy killing a human (even if he really wasn't, but you know what I mean ...) the episode, to me, was majorly about this character abusing Joyce and Buffy.

[red_satin_doll]

the episode, to me, was majorly about this character abusing Joyce and Buffy.And about divorced families, and the awkwardness of dealing with a parent's new partner; but to me this episode is also very much about the abuse of power and responsibility in general but ESPECIALLY in terms of the responsibilities of parents/adults (including teachers, administrators, etc) to children, which has huge ripple effects throughout the series. I just rewatched the dream sequence between Buffy and Hank in Nightmares and the actor and character reminds me so, so much of Ted- in the dialogue, in his physique and coloring, in the extreme close-ups of the two of them. (The resemblance makes a lot of sense - that Joyce would be attracted to someone who in some way reminds her of Hank, who may have reminded her of her father, etc etc

[norwie2010]

You made me tear up....

Much has been made of Buffy’s “daddy issues”, at the cost of the complex mother/daughter relationship, and so scholars and fandom inadvertently repeat the sins of Ted, and of the Watchers Council.

This. So, so this! The WC personified by Giles tries to break up the matriarchal home of the Summers women, in fact, he tries to replace Buffy's mother with himself. And while he loves Buffy, he does not love her unconditionally - he tries to shape her in ways which benefit his agenda, the ideology he stands for; as opposed to Joyce Summers, who - while sometimes confused - loves her daughter wholly. There is some aspect of proprietary love - or 'love' as a special expression of ownership - vs a mother's love here. And, yes - fandom, critics, whathaveyou are all too dismissive of the female relationship (and not only this mother-daughter relationship!) and put overly focused importance on Buffy's relationships with (various) men.

Thanks for writing this! And all the very best to you! :-)

[red_satin_doll]

Hey sweetie, I'm so glad you came by! I was hoping you would, I've missed seeing you about lately. Still working hard in the belly of the beast

Because I have too many thoughts for one reply...

[red_satin_doll]

[Con't]And while he loves Buffy, he does not love her unconditionally - he tries to shape her in ways which benefit his agenda, the ideology he stands for; as opposed to Joyce Summers, who - while sometimes confused - loves her daughter wholly. There is some aspect of proprietary love - or 'love' as a special expression of ownership - vs a mother's love here.

As an agent of the WC he definitely tries to replace Joyce, which has probably been normal procedure in many cultures and throughout time (i.e. Kendra, or Nikki's Watcher adopting Robin.) Giles' ambivalence represents the fact that he paradigm no longer works in the modern world. At the very least needs to be rethought or adjusted. It's that closed system that allows minor tweaks but no major changes. But that's not to absolve Giles or Joyce of their failures either.

I think it's a bit more complicated than "proprietary love vs motherly love", which implies that women and mothers especially just intuitively know how to love and intuitively have "mastery". It's gender

[red_satin_doll]

Argh, in the midst of my rantings I utterly failed to acknowledge the most important thing you said:

And, yes - fandom, critics, whathaveyou are all too dismissive of the female relationship (and not only this mother-daughter relationship!) and put overly focused importance on Buffy's relationships with (various) men.

YES, exactly. (And my apologies, dear!)

Friday March 15th, 2013

[livejournal]

User audela referenced to your post from Friday March 15th, 2013 saying: [...] has thoughts about Ted [...]

[ext_1473268]

Wow. Beautifully done, and you highlight something that really encompasses not only Ted, but the series as a whole - there is something for everyone. Something that touches us, speaks to us, resonates in our lives. It's the reason that people are still hanging onto this fandom after so many years.

In a way, your story reminds me how I feel about The Body, which I think it truly my favorite episode. Although my grandmother didn't pass suddenly like Joyce, the bright and raw pain, the shock, the gaping hole created in the character's lives so closely echoes what I feel, even years later, when I think about my grandmother. And that's why it speaks to me. And I cry every time I watch it, and actually usually enjoy doing so.

Thank you for sharing your story and your thoughts.

[red_satin_doll]

I had a really nice reply and then Safari crashed before I could hit post *grumble* But basically, just YES to all of this, every word. Thank you for reading it and sharing; and I'm very sorry about your grandmother.

Something that touches us, speaks to us, resonates in our lives. It's the reason that people are still hanging onto this fandom after so many years.

Oh so much yes; you express it so perfectly. I was afraid when I joined this fandom that everything had been said and discovered already, and yet there are still places for me to "be", still room to dig through the layers and find things that have been overlooked or under-discussed. Or just sit back and laugh and cry.

the gaping hole created in the character's lives so closely echoes what I feelTHIS

[ever_neutral]

I love everything about this post.

It’s no accident that at the end of the episode Buffy and Joyce agree to a rewatch of Thelma and Louise, a movie that disturbed and polarize audiences because two female protagonists commit violent acts against male characters onscreen; the same violence by male protagonists is a commonplace in movies, and a guarantee of box office sales.
Oh wow, I completely forgot about this part in the episode. What a brilliant catch. ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES FOR A REASON. <<<333

And yeah, I don't understand how anyone could possibly watch "Ted" and not sympathize with Buffy. I mean, how UNACCEPTABLE for a woman to fight back against her abuser with everything she has. SMH.

In conclusion: You speak to my soul. And thank you especially for sharing your personal experiences -- I can imagine that must have been incredibly difficult, but it's definitely appreciated, especially by those of us who have also grown up in abusive homes. {hugs}

♥ ♥ ♥

[red_satin_doll]

Oh wow, I completely forgot about this part in the episode. What a brilliant catch. ONE OF MY FAVORITE MOVIES FOR A REASON. <<<333

I've got my tenth anniversary DVD edition right on the shelf here. that movie rocked my world - I saw it in college the same year I finally decided to "come out". I sort of envy Buffy and Joyce being able to share it because my mom hated it, ironically. But the link there between the reception of the movie and the reaction to Ted just popped out at me on rewatch; I'm assuming it's just a happy accident on Joss & David's part.

I don't understand how anyone could possibly watch "Ted" and not sympathize with Buffy. I mean, how UNACCEPTABLE for a woman to fight back against her abuser with everything she has.SO MUCH WORD. When I read that attitude I just - I can't. Even. It is not ok with me to claim that Buffy doesn't have the right to defend herself and her mother against a man who attempts to murder her - twice. There's nothing ambiguous about his intentions or his actions, no "grey area" here. IT IS