Quick quick now!

Mar 20, 2014 21:21

1) The deadline is tomorrow, Friday the 20th at midnight for  both otherworldlyric challenge #166 , "Easy Way Out" by Gotye, and slayerstillness challenge 20 "Love Song for a Vampire. More entries are needed - and I'm sitting both of these out, so don't look at me. I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the pretties this time around ( Read more... )

comm: slayerstillness, comm: otherworldlyrics, a little bird told me, fandom: btvs, icon challenge, tumblr, someone linked to me oh my

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kwritten March 21 2014, 11:17:10 UTC
I think what a lot of people (like me) find so distasteful about shipper wars is that the biggest are between to het relationships, with a girl oscillating from ship to ship. The big shipper wars - BAngel/Spuffy and DElena/StElena - that I am familiar with are like this: they take the main female and create a scenario in which the fandom conversation isn't "wow what an interesting female character" but instead becomes: "so which guy do YOU think is better?"

Shipper wars are about the guy and dressed up to be about the actual awesome woman in the middle*.

*the one exception to this rule (that I've seen) has been either in the case of M/M vs. CANON M/F (which is troubling) or in the case of Lost Girl, which has a bisexual protagonist ( ... )

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Re: (pt 2) clockwork_hart1 March 23 2014, 00:54:24 UTC
Give me so many female characters that the F/F fic on AO3 outweighs the M/M fic.may I point you to the skins (uk) fandom? The f/f following is huge due to the fan preferred (and cannon to boot) lesbian super couple Naomi and Emily and all of their beauty. The series is separated into generations, and though gen 1 has more m/m due to an explicitly gay character and arguably bisexual boy who had a prolific sex scene and the extensive homoerotic subtext between the latter boy and his best friend (who sleep in the same bed, one partially and he other totally naked in an episode, and in another have a conversation featuring the dialogue "I always loved you the best"), the other generations (2&3) are mostly comprised of lesbian shippers ( ... )

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Re: (pt 2) kwritten March 23 2014, 03:53:36 UTC
I meant this in general - but thanks for letting me know! I have S1 downloaded because I promised a friend a while back that I'd start watching Skins and this is the little push that I needed!

I'm actually looking in to writing some scripts for a few ideas I've had and pitching them to some networks because I NEED A STORY THAT MEETS MY NEEDS EVEN IF I HAVE TO DO IT MYSELF.
YES.
OKAY THIS.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

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Re: (pt 2) clockwork_hart1 March 23 2014, 17:19:59 UTC
I have so many feelings about that show, you have no idea. http://clockwork-hart1.livejournal.com/20454.html

Nothing is what it seems, everyone is very broken and that's something I kind of love about it. The idyllic party scene is just a facade and the characters are very human underneath, despite how they might appear. It gets a lot darker in season 2, in fact, every second season is darker that the last except maybe s6 which IS dark but is also full of backwards characterisation and stupid plots that still makes me kind of angry. Ugh feelings.

VIVA LA REVOLUTION INDEED!!

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Re: (pt 2) red_satin_doll March 23 2014, 20:14:29 UTC
I'm actually looking in to writing some scripts for a few ideas I've had and pitching them to some networks because I NEED A STORY THAT MEETS MY NEEDS EVEN IF I HAVE TO DO IT MYSELF.

I FULLY SUPPORT THIS PLAN. Hugs, cookies, cheering, beta'ing, kicks in the butt - whatever you need.

Even if it doesn't get "greenlighted" it could be a play, a book; and nowadays making a film is becoming so much cheaper thanks to digital technology.

And thank god for the internet. I'm not sure if folks who have always had it in their lives realize what an amazing tool it can be. My friend Christine introduced me to fanfiction - she wrote Deep Space 9 fanfic that she copied and stapled herself on a mimeograph machine. Which meant that a couple of people got to see it at best.

we NEED to tell our own stories. We can't wait around for others to do it for us.

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Re: (pt 2) clockwork_hart1 March 24 2014, 15:19:49 UTC
THIS IS SO APPRECIATED. I need to get some things written, but my ideas shift so quickly. I might start with characters rather than a story and let them take me where they need to go. I just want a thing full of beautifully flawed, funny, intelligent, mistake-making ladies that I can relate to and I want them to not die. A part of me wants to have a mixed cast and slowly kill off the male characters just to prove a point about fridging - just to see if people take notice rather than brush it off like we're expected to do when the girls die in the things we love.

My feelings are so raw right now.

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Re: (pt 2) red_satin_doll March 24 2014, 15:26:40 UTC
A part of me wants to have a mixed cast and slowly kill off the male characters just to prove a point about fridging - just to see if people take notice rather than brush it off like we're expected to do when the girls die in the things we love.

But OMG you can't do that! That will mean you're a reverse sexist! How dare you! */end snark* Never mind if you're doing it to make a POINT, and not for the sake of "entertainment".

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Re: (pt 2) clockwork_hart1 March 24 2014, 15:33:28 UTC
Well, depending on the guys in question, it might be a LITTLE entertaining...

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Re: (pt 2) red_satin_doll March 24 2014, 17:09:44 UTC
And this is where I'm supposed to click my tongue and say "bad girl"...but given all the fics I've come across because I do not support the use of rape, torture and murder against women as entertainment...even though I know you're joking.

But I won't of course.

'cause I also know that some of the people who would say just that to you have NO problem with those very things used against female characters. Who enjoy reading about torture as something sexy and will tell you it's "just fantasy". As long as it's used against women that is.

OTOH there are people who love to torture Spike, so....*shrugs*

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Re: (pt 2) eilowyn March 23 2014, 05:25:18 UTC
I may be really overly upset about the number of female character deaths that have occurred this year. TOO FUCKING MANY. It's only March. IT'S ONLY MARCH AND THREE OF MY FAVORITE FEMALES ON TELEVISION HAVE DIED ALREADY THIS YEAR. AND GIA. I'm so NOT in the mood to baby shippers OR male characters. There's too many male characters. Give me a fandom that doesn't give a shit about male characters. Give me so many female characters that the F/F fic on AO3 outweighs the M/M fic. Give me a fandom where there is a HEALTHY dialogue about relationships and not a war that no one can win and only encourages female-bashing and slut-shaming and prioritizes male characters. Give me a fandom where shippers don't feel the need to get a pat on the back for being hateful to other groups of people based on personal preferences. Give me living, breathing female characters and STOP KILLING THEM.

This is why I'm so conflicted because I want this to happen, and I think it's latent misogyny why it doesn't ( ... )

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red_satin_doll March 22 2014, 13:45:54 UTC
I just wanted to let you know Lexi that I love that you brought this conversation here - it's a coffeehouse in my little home! - and please feel free to carry on. *HUGS*

Kelsey pretty much speaks for me, but I want to reiterate - it's not against you at all. The patterns she calls out are ones you haven't been guilty of, just the opposite.

It comes down to I don't hate shippers I hate the toxic atmosphere created for female characters, for fans of those female characters, for themselves and one another. Failing to have fun over what we all love and instead tearing one another apart over who "wins" who.

I'm of two minds about this: if we say shipper wars dismiss female characters, are we dismissing fans who identify with the males involved?I'm criticizing patterns of thought and behavior I've seen at large. NEVER have I said "don't identify with male characters." Hell, I have actually fought for and defended Xander to other fans because I can see the good as well as the bad in him. He's complicated ( ... )

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eilowyn March 23 2014, 05:28:42 UTC
I feel like I'm playing the Devil's advocate with you and Kelsey, because the both of you haven't said anything that isn't true or that I don't agree with. I just don't want to be dismissive of people who identify with male characters because then we're doing the same thing that happens when people identify with female characters.

Anyway, glad to make your journal the coffeehouse!

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red_satin_doll March 23 2014, 18:35:56 UTC
I'm not dismissing people who identify primarily with male characters wholesale. I've never suggested any such thing. Love who you love. What Kelsey said in her post is something that I noticed almost immediately when I entered fandom though, the prioritization of male characters to the point that some people will even claim the female protagonist isn't the actual protagonist ( ... )

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