Well, that’s a relief. Don’t get me wrong, if there were a D/C hookup that happened organically, and it was clear in previous episodes that this was the arc all along, I’d be pretty thrilled, actually. But some last minute or final season retcon change to Dean’s sexual orientation or Castiel’s intentions toward Dean would feel like exactly that - a retcon, and such a transparent caving in to fans’ demands that I would lose all respect for this show and its production team.
I want the writers to tell the story of the Winchester brothers, not bring our fanfic to life. I’ll read fics that pair Dean with anyone/thing, but I don’t expect to see him kissing Castiel on my TV screen any more than I truly expected to see him making out with Benny in Purgatory. Taking that from fanfic to canon would be jarring, to say the least. Frankly, it would feel like the writers are forcing us to watch their attempt at fanfic (and bad fanfic at that, since I don’t think any of the show’s current writers could hold a candle to some of the truly
( ... )
It is thoroughly appropriate! And I solidly echo your sentiments.
In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a hetero married white woman on the far end of forty, with a gay brother. I've liked Castiel from the moment he made his entrance. I had not, however, picked up any actual homoerotic subtext between Dean and Cas until I'd stumbled into fandom and even then, I read mostly gen until relatively recently. Fandom pointed out the D/C thing to me. On my own? I'd never have seriously considered it. I have a mess of straight male friends and they joke around and interface just like Dean and Cas and Sam do. Maybe I'm just ollllld.
Now that the writers are aware of the discontent within a part of fandom, I feel like they're trying to do some damage control by keeping Cas strongly in the story but affirming both Dean's and Cas' definition as straight men. It's kinda clumsy, really.
I think show tried to answer the 'representation' issue with Charlie, they didn't have to make her gay at all, and nicely enough, it's only an aspect of her character, not the main purpose of being (as plenty of females feature on supernatural in a disposable sense) but for some fans, it ain't enough if it ain't their OTP.
I have a mess of straight male friends and they joke around and interface just like Dean and Cas and Sam do.Sometimes I wonder if this is the problem, the eternal conundrum of men and women never fully "getting" each other. It's a safe assumption that the bulk of SPN fandom is female, but this show is mostly about and mostly written (and run) by men. The male writers/actors/producers perceive the characters' interactions one way, while the female fanbase sees the potential for something else. I don't think either side is entirely off-base, since gay/bi guys are raised in the same environments as straights, and some likely behave in exactly the same way. And fans do love to read between the lines - it's where fanfic comes from. But really, going by some women's guidelines, is there any behavior that classifies as clearly heterosexual? Is there no such thing as a man who does not have the potential to "go gay
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It's a relief that twitter/tumblr doesn't have as much impact on writers as it feels like some days. I really get second hand embarrassment by some of the stuff I come across at times. Especially when the comments or notes have that demanding sense of entitlement in them. Ugh.
I do wish that more fans would realize that actors/writers/producers/whatever that are interacting with them on twitter are doing so as a means of promoting themselves/show/product and not "being friends" or that it's anything personal. Like conventions appearances, these things generate promotion and they get paid. It's a job and they're actors. That doesn't mean they're not nice people or aren't having fun - just that if they're any good at their chosen profession, we'd likely not be able to tell the difference.
Have you seen Orlando Jones? He's an actor on Sleepy Hollow and quite active on twitter and tumblr, encouraging all the ships and rebloging AO3 fanfic written about his character. It's rather hilarious. /random, but-somewhat-related, ramble
Orlando Jones cracks my shit up. I've only seen Sleepy Hollow twice but he's my favorite character already. Sleepy Natural? Super Hollow? I WANT.
But seriously, I honestly believe the whole staff appreciates that their show has generated such a passionate fanbase, but as with any sizable group, some fans are more extreme and/or less polite than others. The Show staff is expected to act professionally (which they sometimes fail at) while fandom didn't seem to be held to such a standard, until recently. I do think it'll get itself ironed out, as the Show figures out what they can and cannot do with certain fans, and as fans learn their own boundaries too. *fingers crossed!*
good luck on the fans learning boundaries! I think people can learn, but there are always new people coming in. And what goes on in SPN is endemic to every fandom I've ever been in.
New (to me) podcast - yay! So checking that out. As for fandom and their demands... Fandom, I love you, but you irk me. I've never heard anyone screaming about the show that I remotely agreed with so I'm very comforted in the fact that the writers are just doing their thing and ignoring the screamers.
I'm getting a little less irked (and in some ways, a little more!) as I discover how TV shows get made. It is such an imprecise science! I really do like getting to throw an occasional tweet back and forth between the staff and myself, but I am in no way naive enough to think it will change the direction of the show. Best Show can do, in regards to social media, is try to take a general temperature of the vibe out there, but even that doesn't necessarily correspond to ratings.
I DO think you can balance quality with success in the television industry, so I hope SPN strives for that. S'all I can do! *fistbump*
Late to the party (made a note to come back when I had a chance though because it sounds interesting). I haven't listened to this (yet), but I am happy and somewhat relieved to hear that the writers don't listen to fans demands. It must be daunting to be confronted with the power of social media - twitter has made it possible to actually talk directly to the writers (actors etc) of a show, which is rather amazing actually. But THANK GOD they don't write to "please" us. I think we get nods (Monster at the End of This Book) HAD to be a nod to what fans were doing, but as long as they are not changing story lines because of "demands" that's a relief. I mean, sure, we complain about (rather topically), say Sam not being present this season and some want them to change that but I would still rather they write their stories, even if they don't match my own
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The bits and pieces somehow gelled into something much more potent and that's why, despite its difficulties, it's still alive and kicking today!
I agree! I think it still has the essential "magic" that it had from day one. It's still exploring the the boys' relationship and the lengths they will go to for each other (this season more than ever).
And yep! I can see myself being in for the long haul as well! ;D
Re. the quote, ROCK ON. But we should always remember 'truth' is in the eye of the beholder. Our own perceptions are our realities. It would be awesome if we could all discuss our truths w/o defensiveness or insult, yeah? Ah, my fantasyland!
Oh yeah, the fandom is one degree away from the boy who makes a SIMS avatar in your likeness and then things with it---flattering, vaguely creepy, and something I don't need to be a part of for him to appreciate.
I think SPN fans have been especially spoiled by the many shout-outs within the show, actor involvement, and the assumption that "a low-budget show with ups and down" equals "heck I can write better than that WHY WON'T THEY RECOGNIZE MY GENIUS".
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I want the writers to tell the story of the Winchester brothers, not bring our fanfic to life. I’ll read fics that pair Dean with anyone/thing, but I don’t expect to see him kissing Castiel on my TV screen any more than I truly expected to see him making out with Benny in Purgatory. Taking that from fanfic to canon would be jarring, to say the least. Frankly, it would feel like the writers are forcing us to watch their attempt at fanfic (and bad fanfic at that, since I don’t think any of the show’s current writers could hold a candle to some of the truly ( ... )
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In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a hetero married white woman on the far end of forty, with a gay brother. I've liked Castiel from the moment he made his entrance. I had not, however, picked up any actual homoerotic subtext between Dean and Cas until I'd stumbled into fandom and even then, I read mostly gen until relatively recently. Fandom pointed out the D/C thing to me. On my own? I'd never have seriously considered it. I have a mess of straight male friends and they joke around and interface just like Dean and Cas and Sam do. Maybe I'm just ollllld.
Now that the writers are aware of the discontent within a part of fandom, I feel like they're trying to do some damage control by keeping Cas strongly in the story but affirming both Dean's and Cas' definition as straight men. It's kinda clumsy, really.
I do wish Ben Edlund hadn't left. I do. *sigh*
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I do wish that more fans would realize that actors/writers/producers/whatever that are interacting with them on twitter are doing so as a means of promoting themselves/show/product and not "being friends" or that it's anything personal. Like conventions appearances, these things generate promotion and they get paid. It's a job and they're actors. That doesn't mean they're not nice people or aren't having fun - just that if they're any good at their chosen profession, we'd likely not be able to tell the difference.
Have you seen Orlando Jones? He's an actor on Sleepy Hollow and quite active on twitter and tumblr, encouraging all the ships and rebloging AO3 fanfic written about his character. It's rather hilarious.
/random, but-somewhat-related, ramble
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But seriously, I honestly believe the whole staff appreciates that their show has generated such a passionate fanbase, but as with any sizable group, some fans are more extreme and/or less polite than others. The Show staff is expected to act professionally (which they sometimes fail at) while fandom didn't seem to be held to such a standard, until recently. I do think it'll get itself ironed out, as the Show figures out what they can and cannot do with certain fans, and as fans learn their own boundaries too. *fingers crossed!*
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(That's what they've been calling it and I think that's hilarious.)
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good luck on the fans learning boundaries! I think people can learn, but there are always new people coming in. And what goes on in SPN is endemic to every fandom I've ever been in.
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I DO think you can balance quality with success in the television industry, so I hope SPN strives for that. S'all I can do! *fistbump*
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I agree! I think it still has the essential "magic" that it had from day one. It's still exploring the the boys' relationship and the lengths they will go to for each other (this season more than ever).
And yep! I can see myself being in for the long haul as well! ;D
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I'll leave you with a quote from an old-school smut writer, "But, if I’m honest with myself, I have to confess that the major reason I still, at least now and then, pen a tale about penises is that I do in fact want to get it right, to not only celebrate male lust, but to get the truth of it down on the page."
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Re. the quote, ROCK ON. But we should always remember 'truth' is in the eye of the beholder. Our own perceptions are our realities. It would be awesome if we could all discuss our truths w/o defensiveness or insult, yeah? Ah, my fantasyland!
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I think SPN fans have been especially spoiled by the many shout-outs within the show, actor involvement, and the assumption that "a low-budget show with ups and down" equals "heck I can write better than that WHY WON'T THEY RECOGNIZE MY GENIUS".
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