Westsiiide, And How We Got This Way.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

Hey guys--come play with me. What do you think are the most significant events in the history of Western civilization?

Comments

[wizzard890]

I seriously agonized over this for way too long. But this is, like, the story of my life. My brother and I once got into a days-long argument about which was more important on the world scale, the conversion of Constantine, or the invention of the atom bomb. I still say I was freaking right at this point, simply because the atom bomb hasn't had as long to effect us as Christianity as an institution has, and maybe in another hundred years the tables will be turned, but not now, okay, and--- I'll stop

[pyrrhiccomedy]

Dude, I made the list and I sat staring at it for ten minutes before I could make my final pick. I mean, I grabbed Newton and Constantine, and then...The French Revolution? The printing press? The Industrial Revolution? World War 2? I must've moved my ticky at least six times. This is why I don't think what we pick is really the issue.

I mean, like, you bring up the "affected us in the modern era / affected us in the past" question. And I think that's a really interesting question. I am personally not inclined to think that the atom bomb belongs on a top 20 list, even though it was absolutely one of the most formative influences of the 20th century, because the threat of nuclear war seems to be growing more and more remote. But like...the microchip? Sure, that's very recent, but it ushered in the computing age, and that's not going anywhere. I think the microchip gets huge points because of its overwhelming significance now and in the future, even if it hasn't had as much time to affect us. Our lives would be unrecognizable to us

[wizzard890]

I think I'd have a different pick every time I look at this, honestly. The only things that stay constant when I make lists like this (for my...own edification XD) are the conversion of Constantine, and the invention of the printing press/movable type. Which are both...equally important, I think. Obviously, history isn't what I'm best at, but skipping out on movable type just seems impossible to me. I mean, this was something that had vast repercussions in pretty much every aspect of society: religion, art, politics, the whole shebang.

But now, nnnggh, I am wishing I had gone with physics instead of WWII as my third pick. Because, like. Math ==> microchip, you know? The same way movable type ==> Protestant Reformation. DO YOU PICK THE CAUSE OR THE EFFECT OH GOD.

[shadedheart95]

Geeze...I stared at this for forever before making my choice. |D And I still have conflicting feelings.

I mean, I love the French Revolution, but I sort of feel as if most of the things that happened in it were based off of other things that had happened in other places...and then WWI vs. WWII...argh.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

See, I almost almost almost picked the French Revolution for how it rejected monarchy and enshrined the idea of the rights of man, which basically influenced everything that ever happened from then on, but...but...it was predicated by the Enlightenment and the American Revolution and France's willingness to go into beaucoup debt during the American Revolution just to piss off England, so I kinda wish I'd had space to put the Hundred Years War on here, too and, and...and yeah.

._.

Also, man, just looking at the poll results so far. No love for the Magna Carta? It was the basis for all constitutional law! And no fall of Rome? What gives!

(Not that I picked those things either, but... >_>)

[daegaer]

The existence of Rome is more important than its fall! Everyone went round pretending they were Romans, or were picking up where the Romans left off and messing round with a literary idea of Romanness the Romans would probably have blinked at, so maybe the idea of Rome is important after it's gone, given that so many people wanted to pretend it wasn't gone at all.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

I did think about that! One again, the tyranny of not enough slots.

Maybe I'll make a new poll just using multiple questions. >_>

[thewaterbandit]

Ah, this was hard! I went with Magna Carta, the printing press, and the Protestant Reformation simply because I know a little more about them than the other topics, though really if there was an 'all of the above' box I'd have ticked that.

(Now I feel weird about being the only person who's voted for the Magna Carta so far. It's like I failed the test XD)

[pyrrhiccomedy]

I was complaining in the comment right above yours that nobody had picked the Magna Carta. So thank you. XD I was all "goddamn, you guys, it established the notion of constitutional law. You better recognize."

[thewaterbandit]

I remember it mostly because of just how hated King John was. I mean, we haven't had a King John since. That's how much England didn't like him. One contemporary even said 'As foul as it is, hell itself would be tainted by the presence of John'. Haters gonna hate, big J.

But yeah, uh... constitutional law! *waves flag*

[pyrrhiccomedy]

...Fffff. XD

YEAH HOW 'BOUT THAT CONSTITUTIONALISM.

[puddingcat]

Without the Scientific Method & Principia Mathematica, anything else involving science & technology would have been delayed enormously. No germ theory, no electricity...

And I felt like I had to put one religious thing in, just cos it has such a vast impact on people's reactions to things.

Had the question been about the 20th century, I'd definitely have said the invention of the birth control pill. Putting reliable contraception in the hands of women had a huge effect on the workforce and economy.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

Oh Jesus, the birth control pill was one of my "nghhh fuck you livejournal why can't I fit more things on here" options. /Signed.

And the Protestant Reformation was badass. I think it's a good choice. *grins*

[gisho]

I'm tempted to go with "the extinction of silphion" as a not-on-the-list contender, because having it not go extinct would have involved finding a way to cultivate it more widely, which could have led to its becoming commonplace worldwide, which, well.

Having a bit of trouble coming up with three, because of the different effects that one might get from keeping something from happening as it did, and keeping it from happening at all. Preventing the discovery of the New World until 1550 or so? All you have to do is sink a few ships. But sooner or later, someone would have to run into it. It's pretty big. Newton's Principia Mathematica? Well, Leibniz managed to come up with calculus, he might well have come up with physics. And preventing anyone discovering Newton's Laws, right up to 2010, would pretty much require repeated divine intervention. The Magna Carta, maaaybe, but more probably it would have happened anyway next time they got a sucky king. And so forth.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

The question isn't necessarily "how much of a difference would it make if you omitted this particular incident of this thing," but "having happened, which of these things had the greatest effect." You're certainly right that the discovery of the New World was inevitable, but that doesn't make "the discovery of the New World" a less significant development. Ditto advanced mathematics; surely some other luminary would have come up with Newton's ideas sooner or later (and Liebniz actually did), but in our timeline, Newton was the one who gave us the Principia; and Western civilization would be wildly different today without the ideas it contained.

It's a bit like saying that World War 2 wasn't important, because if World War 2 hadn't happened, surely a different war would have broken out and had similarly dire consequences, considering the climate of Europe at the time. It's a true statement, but since World War 2 was the war we got, that's the one we're talking about.

[pyrrhiccomedy]

Awesome, thank you for your stats!

(I'm already wishing I'd picked the printing press instead of World War 2. But then again...it's World War 2.)

[wizzard890]

Printing press, yessss. Join me and rule the galaxy~