My big het poll (now with proper coding)

[profshallowness]

This isn't related to the latest round of discussion about het and slash, although I held back from posting this poll until I was caught up. It's actually inspired by the round before this (see metafandom's March entries), in which one commentator seemed to think that slash fandom = fandom. As this excluded me as both het writer and occasional fan of some

Comments

[liliaeth]

I had a bit of a hesitation about the May/December kind of relationships.
I mean, technically Buffy/Spike and Doctor/Rose are May/December relationships, yet I somehow can't seem to count them as such.

[profshallowness]

Thanks for taking the poll. Hmm, such relationships are interesting ones. Like, I 'ship Giles/Anya, which looks like a classic May-December relationship on the face of it, but isn't of course, because Anya is actually the elder. The relationships with vamps and demons in the Jossverse do play around with that type, yet it's not always apparent that they do - certainly not visually. And it's also the case with a lot of sci-fi/fantasy shows, but it's not the first thing that'd come to mind if you were describing a relationship.

As there were such a lot of loopholes like that, I hope you just went with your perception :)

[femmenerd]

Here is some "why I like het" meta that I've had bookmarked for awhile. And btw, when I went looking for it in my memories I found that I'd bookmarked one of your meta posts about "transgressive het" long before we "met."

It's a small, small world

[profshallowness]

Thanks for the link, but I think I've probably got it bookmakred too, and friended nell65 because for it.

I'm fascinated my het-related meta.

Re: It's a small, small world

[femmenerd]

I'm fascinated my het-related meta.

So am I. And I really should write some, especially since I *think* I was the first person on LJ to list "queer het" as an interest and I'm quite invested in that term actually.

I'd also really like to further interrogate why I feel like I like het that "feels slashy" and wtf I mean by that. Heh.

Re: It's a small, small world

[profshallowness]

I'd be interested to see you meta, and why I feel like I like het that "feels slashy" and wtf I mean by that. because I personally find the term 'queer het', or the use I've seen of it, at any rate, problematic. How do you read het as slashy? What elements strike you as slashy, that is? And what does that make het that isn't queer (which may not be precisely the same thing as slashy)? Is it all heteronormative? Strait-laced and thus less interesting? Because that is the feeling that I get from some of the discussions of what queer het means - that only het that has an element of gender-identity bending or whatever is interesting or cool and valid and all other het is, er, not. Which, as someone who reads mainly het of various sorts, I find problematic.

[femmenerd]

*Note. I didn't click on 'shipping incest pairings though I do sometimes read Sam/Dean from SPN, but I don't really count it as 'shipping exactly since I don't exactly "support" that pairing (if that makes any sense) but can be interested in it when it's written in certain ways, and I largely read gen fic and het in that fandom, which makes me weird apparently.

PS last comment, I mean 'by' not 'my'

[profshallowness]

Yeah, there's a difference between reading a pairing and supporting it. I've read certain stories for my 'ships, where there are themes of non-con or whatever, the couple gets together and I'm strongly against it, although I'm a staunch shipper. There are stories that I've written that have a pairing in the label, but they're not 'shipper stories. Although I appreciate how strong the 'shipper drive is in fandom.

I wonder how readers for incestuous pairings seperate along the 'actually 'ship' and 'read out of interest'? I haven't read much meta on the topic, because it's really not my thing.

I largely read gen fic and het in that fandom, which makes me weird apparently.
Oh, fandom.

Re: PS last comment, I mean 'by' not 'my'

[thelana]

I picked the incest option because by definition of shipping is very broad (last put not least because I'm very anti OTP). To me anything that intrigues me enough to want to read fic about it, I consider shipping. And pairings like Duncan/Lily from Veronica Mars or even Luke/Leia would fall under that. I wouldn't ever want to read a fic where they get a happy end together, but I'd be interested in fics that deal with their dynamic.

Re: PS last comment, I mean 'by' not 'my'

[profshallowness]

I discuss a bit about how 'shipping can and does mean more than 'happy ending together' to me above with fivezero. I think there's a grey area between reading a het pairing and shipping it, and I didn't think through how readers of transgressive pairings (incest is the obvious example) read such fic without calling themselves shippers. Assumptions of an outsider.

And of course, the definition of shipping is flexible, some will take a harder line than others, I mean - setting aside the OTP issue - I tried to make my definition of 'shipping for this poll non-fic-centric but straightforward and inclusive. (!!!)

[the_satyr_icon]

Hi.

I'm a male, 30+ years of age, and 'ship het in several fandoms, and write fanfic for them as well, especially Smallville (Chloe/Clark).

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[profshallowness]

Thank you for taking the poll and commenting. (Some people don't believe you exist. Or maybe they haven't thought their generalisations through.)

[the_satyr_icon]

I enjoy My status within My fandoms, like Smallville and Joker-Harley Quinn. There is all those people...then HIM! *screams and gasps*

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[profshallowness]

I'm quite bad at assuming femaleness until proven otherwise. I try not to scream and gasp, but it does usually lead to a shift in my mental picture of someone to find out they're a guy.

[fivezero]

May-December and mentor/student pairings: I enjoy these both when the older character is guiding the younger one and when there's a breach of trust (the older character is quite obviously taking advantage).

I don't really "support" any pairing -- I don't want to see any of them turn up in canon, except for those that already are there, and I don't require a happy ending. I seek out fan fiction for a large number of different f/m pairings in different fandoms, though.

[profshallowness]

Thank you for your input. For me, the situation where an older character takes advantage is a squick, and for what May-December pairings I'm into, there's usually something that creates a measure of equality. But I'm aware that mileage varies and I find that what draws people to various pairing types really fascinating

[fivezero]

I understand that. I used to avoid stories in which an older man took advantage of a younger woman -- actually had a very visceral reaction against them -- at least partly because of what looked like a reinforcement and exaggeration of gender stereotype. Especially because the fan fiction wing of fandom is so female-dominated, I felt like a voyeur, sneaking into places where, as a guy, I really wasn't supposed to be. My thought was that where it might read as "exorcism of demons" for a woman, it could seem more like revelling in misogyny for a man. I've lightened up a bit since then, though. :)

There does seem to be a spectrum. I guess I could consider myself to support those pairings I seek out or am drawn to explore (whether or not the characters are made happy), instead of just reading them when I come across them.

[profshallowness]

Especially because the fan fiction wing of fandom is so female-dominated, I felt like a voyeur, sneaking into places where, as a guy, I really wasn't supposed to be. Oh, that's an interesting perspective, yes, because I think that female writers (so the majority of fic writers) are very aware that their audience is mainly female and this is a gendered space.

My thought was that where it might read as "exorcism of demons" for a woman, Or 'safe playing out of fantasy'.

Yeah, on the 'supporting a pairing' thing, I did probably overlay my own interpretation there, but I think the term is open-ended enough that that definition fits. I have to say, that when I'm pinged by a pairing or dynamic, the seeking out is a bit like marching out on a quest.