Dark Vales and Deep Ones

[princeofcairo]

I think I've stumbled onto something again.

While looking into the nature of Niðavellir, as one does, I noticed that for one of the Nine Worlds, it's very little attested in the Eddas. (Indeed, Wikipedia doesn't even list it as one of the A-list Nine, implying that it's a mere synonym for Svartalfheim. If you're curious, I personally conflate

Comments

[reverancepavane]

Very nice argument for the proper nature of the Deep Vales. I like it.
Even without the added Cthulhoid goodness.

[gene_ha]

Heck, that's some impressive Tolkien! What is the "call of the sea"? One could have great fun crossing Lothlorien with Dunwich. The rumors that Gimli heard are true, the sights he saw but glamour.

[princeofcairo]

If Wikipedia is correct in describing the proto-Krakens hafgufa and lyngbakr as "spider-creatures" (I didn't see anything like that in the saga, but then my Icelandic is not what it should be), then that also casts an interesting light on the giant spiders in Mirkwood. Could they be the true form of the Sindar?

[erikred]

Could they be the true form of the Sindar?

An interesting possibility: Wikipedia tells us that 'Ungoliant [parent to Shelob, and from "before the world"] means "dark spider" in the fictional Sindarin language,' which would seem to argue against your proposition. However, in the very next sentence, we learn that 'It is a loan word from Quenya: Ungwë liantë' [gloom spider]. If the Sindar in their true form were indeed "dark/gloom spiders," they might use such a loan-word in place of their own native, unpronounceable-on-this-plane word for themselves in describing an elder being like Ungoliant.

After all, it rather gives the game away if you call it "Uncle."

[notthebuddha]

Your conjectures closely parallel my own! I went with freshwater deep ones under a lake with a deep current. A war with the giants disturbs their calm doings by their "river", impelling the PCs to venture into the lands above seeking answers, fame, fortune, breeding stock, y'know, the usual.

[krfsm]

Speaking - as you, briefly, were - of krakens: have you read China Miéville's Kraken: An Anatomy? Only read a few chapters yet, but Miéville forays into, shall we say, the tentacles of the Giant Squid and his worshippers, in a London of a thousand sects who all await their apocalypses. Horror and urban fantasy and a touch of dark humour. I think you'd like it.

[anonymous]

The Finnish version of the Kraken is even more Lovecraftian: Iku-Turso, aka the "thousand-headed" or "the bearded one." Sea monster, giant octopus, bringer of disease, general bad news. He lives in a castle beneath the sea and the gods use powerful magic to keep him there.

All of this brings up the interesting question: WHY are so many Scandinavian cultures really nervous about big octopuses?

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