Dysfunctional Shipping Awareness Month, Days 6&7

[pocochina]

Have y'all missed my stabby pointer finger? I know I have! Adama-grade temper tantrum about some extremely disturbing topics below the cut.

Comments

[obsessive_a101]

That meta post you linked to (re:Focus) is awesome. That said, I was nodding as I read along with this post (is that even a surprise) on Athena/Helo and why it's all sorts of wrong.

And I think that is why that moment in "Islanded in a Stream of Stars" is so fantastically interesting to me when Boomer knocks out Athena and sets her up to see her having sex with her husband so fascinating, not because I'm saying that it was the right thing (not even close), but because it's one of the points of the show where I found that the relationship could have had one of its most interesting explorations (nevermind the fact that it was TWO/THREE EPISODES FROM THE END) since they dropped off many of the problematic aspects of it during the gap on NC.

Of course, understandably, the show turns itself to focus more on the abducted Hera (and gods know, I have unpublished Sharon and Laura in order for me to order my thoughts on that).

[pocochina]

but because it's one of the points of the show where I found that the relationship could have had one of its most interesting explorations

YES. And I couldn't tell if I was supposed to read Athena's reaction to that whole thing as guilt over having done the same thing herself? Or if I was supposed to read Helo's reaction to it as him realizing how messed up things with Athena are and always were? As much as Boomer was the worst party there, I can't help but feel like she got scapegoated for all that ambiguity.

Of course, understandably, the show turns itself to focus more on the abducted Hera (and gods know, I have unpublished Sharon and Laura in order for me to order my thoughts on that).

lol, right. I love how Sharon's response to that whole thing is to sell out the rescue mission to the Cavils. Way to prove those inexplicably prejudiced human bastards wrong! You go get 'em, tiger!

[obsessive_a101]

I think, I'll with the cheating answer, and say "yes. both" to an interpretation of their reactions. I think both of them felt a lot of guilt, though very different reasons. Athena's guilt though is a bit less straightforward for me - there was definitely a lot of anger and frustration mixed in, and the writers took the easy out (and sometimes, I feel like Athena took the easy out) by killing Boomer. I understand that basically everyone was looking for clean-cut endings, but it would have been so much more interesting if they had gone the other way instead. And honestly, I'm not sure if Helo realizes, specifically, how skewed his relationship with Athena was as much as disappointed in himself for being tricked again. It harkens back a bit to his dilemma in The Hub, which, I think, was meant to throw him off and try to wake him up to the problems, and I was hoping them to face those problems. As adorable as "The Fighting Agathons" against the world could be in the darker times of the show, I think it would have been nice to, I don't

[pocochina]

I'm not sure if Helo realizes, specifically, how skewed his relationship with Athena was as much as disappointed in himself for being tricked again. It harkens back a bit to his dilemma in The Hub, which, I think, was meant to throw him off and try to wake him up to the problems, and I was hoping them to face those problems.

mmm. yeah. And I get the desire to have a "happy couple" in the narrative? But my ish is with the choosing this couple to be the happy couple.

[obsessive_a101]

Hi! I hope you don't mind me just jumping in, because I find this comment intriguing. :) (Then again, I find basically find everything in the universe intriguing.) Especially when you pointed out the real-world parallels (which, gods, I hope the writers weren't actually aiming for that [I'm using 'that' I myself cannot probably discern in my mind at the moment what that pronoun is supposed to replace exactly in that context]), because especially with the "Asian" and "White" distinction, the recent cases of adoption controversy in China (and tangent, have you ever read Throwaway Daughter, it's fiction but written quite well) and forced adoption, where the government HAS been taking away children from their parents, especially in the Hunan province for money, but gods... It IS an unbelievably uncomfortable storyline

[obsessive_a101]

I've thought of those options before as well, as just a wondering sort of way, and I've seen AUs where it actually happens. The only reason I think it doesn't work out is that one reason they were planning to fake her death in the first place, I think, was because they absolutely wanted to make sure the Cylons would give up the search for her. :3 At least, that was the way I read the entire scenario, because from a lot of the shady dealings, it just seemed as if everyone wanted the baby for their own reasons. I think, at least, that was part of the entire "this must remain a secret" aspect to it. :3

they don't have a plan and they aren't a they

[auroramama]

The Cylons don't make enough sense to me to allow me to decide how to view their guilt. Everything you say about Sharon is reasonable if she's more or less human. But was she even an individual when she was first tapped for her role? Was Caprica? Are they mentally as well as physically photocopies, or instances of a class, or physical clones who diverge through their experiences

Re: they don't have a plan and they aren't a they

[pocochina]

See, this is where I love the Cylons as a fictional concept and can't even with them philosophically. I loved Caprica, which was all about "the cylons are all self-justifying solipsistic teenagers with chips on their shoulder, designed by a self-justifying solipsistic teenager with a chip on her shoulder." I can totally get behind and even enjoy that the whole apocalypse was just a massive temper tantrum. But I think the narrative expects me to actually sympathize with their human-hate and give the whining philosophical weight, and that's where I get stuck. Where "stuck" = "hissing spitting furious."

by contrast, I adore D'Anna, because she is such an intellectually honest true believer who totally owns and believes in what she does. KILLED Y'ALL! LOL, U MAD? I can engage with that so much more easily than the endless blather about "we took it upon ourselves to bomb fifty million civilians to shit because they totally had it coming, is why. so there." (see: all of the Athena-Bill conversations in S2.)

In self-defense, humanity has

[ever_neutral]

This is a tragic and terrifying thing: people RightShip Helo and Athena. Like, actually think theirs is a beautiful love.

LOL. Yep. And you know what? I can totally see it. They have some beautiful moments. I totally wrong!shipped them in S1, so. I get it. But. AND THEN THEY NEVER EVER BRING UP THE RAPE EVER AGAIN. And Helo has a beautiful happy ending with his rapist. WUT.

rescued a helpless infant from a mass murderer who spent all of her free time stomping around her cell yelling I REGRET NOTHING!!! and said mass murderer's thoroughly brainwashed accomplice. Um, that bitch? lol@haters.

TROLOLOLOLOL A++++++.

Why the discrepancy? Because Helo and Athena are married and have a baby and if it looks like normative American family life, it can't be abusive?In fucking one. (Also, Kara/Leoben are the best. Whatever

[pocochina]

AND THEN THEY NEVER EVER BRING UP THE RAPE EVER AGAIN.

See, this is the key piece of it that bothers me. I never really invested in Kara/Leoben, but I can at least engage with it intellectually sometimes, because I don't have to get stuck on how the show got bored with the months of sexualized abuse and so just forgot about it and expected me to do the same. Neither do I really think anyone who engages with the pairing sticks their fingers in their ears and pretends it's all fluffy and shit.

[cold_clarity]

I don't know that I actually have much to contribute to this; Helo/Athena hasn't really ever been my particular interest (although I confess to rooting for them while I was watching the show because goddamn, Helo was like one of three characters who didn't make me want to rip out my eyes between seasons 2 and 4. I think). subsequently, I don't really rightship, wrongship or...any kind of ship them. I just took it as canon and moved on.

I really appreciate you pointing out the creeptasticness of it all, though. since I never gave the pairing much thought, it never occurred to me that Athena was basically guilty of rape and emotional manipulation/abuse. I think that part of the reason why it never struck me is actually a major failing on the writers' behalf (lol this whole show is a failing on the writers' behalf, lbr); they never bother with exploring the nuance of Athena and Helo's relationship. I don't even really buy that there was much intentional creepiness up through 2.5 (what was there was probably unintentional on the writers

[pocochina]

Yeah, I think the wrong-shipping read on this is a lot more compelling than the right-shipping read. I mean, I went with it to some extent on first watch too, but I never quite clicked with them in the way I was clearly supposed to, and on thinking about the show it's only gotten more disturbing to me.

I don't even really buy that there was much intentional creepiness up through 2.5 (what was there was probably unintentional on the writers' part, or intentional solely on behalf of Grace Park's performance).

uugh. I remember feeling consistently creeped out for a while, but I might well have been projecting. (but seriously, Grace Park appreciation, because she did so much with bringing forth the complexity of all those Eights even when she didn't get a whole lot of material to do it with.)

and yeah. Leoben, we're allowed to remember that he's pretty scary, and I think the show at least presents a believable explanation for his actions without excusing them. But I never caught anything along those lines happening with Sharon.