Comments | pocochina: you've been around all night, and that's a little long

pocochina

you've been around all night, and that's a little long

Jul 14, 2011 00:41

I have, however, started to figure out what I like in a ship, which does seem to be more of a detailed set of preferences. Mostly BSG and Buffyverse examples:

Basically, my support for a ship is inversely proportional to the amount of will they/won’t they garment-rending. I like the idea of people having and building a history together. That can ( Read more... )

bsg, btvs/ats, god doesn't want you! but i still do., me me me, tvd

Comments 10

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pocochina July 14 2011, 05:37:06 UTC

Dollhouse is kind of a niche show. (I'm trying not to be all snobbish about it IT'S HARD THOUGH WHEN OUR SHOW IS SO GOOD.) That's a rare set of topics to see handled at all, and I think Dollhouse engages with it intensely.

Also, now that I think about it, the structure really made WTWT by and large not an issue, especially after E1, which definitely does not hurt, both in terms of my personal taste enjoyment of it, and in that it took that potential easy out off the shelf and forced some more interesting relationships to the surface.

W&H is a great source of villainy! They kind of faded for me a little in S3, when they just became this amorphous mass of Overeducated Evil + Lilah (dude, a bunch of lawyers are the last people you want on your wet team, I swear to God), but even then the function in that season was to facilitate Holtz, which is also a good villain move.

angearia July 14 2011, 05:10:08 UTC

This is so interesting! I love your political readings especially, that's not my natural way to engage with text, but I enjoy it still. It's thought provoking, aye.

Sometimes, they keep each other in stasis with their love - Spike’n’Dru.Okay, so it looks like I have ~thoughts~ here ( ... )

pocochina July 14 2011, 05:52:41 UTC

ooooh, I love all this! I don't actually think I disagree, but what does it for me with Spike and Dru is the backstory, these whole lifetimes of them singing their little songs that builds into this thing that always was. It's always seemed to me like Sunnydale and Buffy are more the agents of Spike's internal changes. Like, he adapts his style to the times because he's adaptable, he gets better at being William the Bloody, but those are presentation issues to me. The thrill-seeking Slayer of Slayersness is there even in that flashback to the mine shaft, where he finds out what a Slayer even is.

You know, I think I see Dru trying to change, trying to be Angel's mummy Darla-replacement, trying to be for Spike -- but I'm not sure there's a concreteness to the shape of the change, if that makes sense. It's like drawing on a steamed-covered mirror, the art evaporates as the creationism cools. Instead of setting in stone, it fades away. Everything and nothing.

yes.

ceciliaj July 14 2011, 06:27:32 UTC

DOLLHOUSE. Let's write more about Dollhouse. After I write some more dissertation tomorrow, it's on. Basically I LOVE YOUR POSTING. PLEASE CONTINUE.

pocochina July 14 2011, 16:07:57 UTC

♥

ever_neutral July 15 2011, 05:51:09 UTC

INTERESTING THOUGHTS.

I come back to Dexter a lot, I know, but I just love it. It lays out that he's the worst, right away, and gets you to look into his perspective without condoning it.

YES! Dexter is one of those shows/characters that somehow manages to avoid The Worst Kind of Man-Pain... I actually do not know how it works, but it does.

Bones/Booth, Josh/Donna - those pairings had me until they went on TOO LONG. There's just no way the payoff can live up to the buildup. But it’s also a no thanks for me because I do think it lays into the treads of more traditional concepts of virginity, and sex as immediate toxin. The first time is still all that counts in this view of romance.

Huh, good point. Not that I don't love those crazy kids Josh and Donna--and I think their loooong build-up was a good showcase of suspense--but I see how it would grate. I sort of liked that the first time for them ended up being kind of... well that was awkward (judging from their reactions afterwards ( ... )

pocochina July 16 2011, 01:28:36 UTC

haha, I feel like Dexter avoids a lot of Man Pain issues because - he angsts and he kills, but he doesn't angst about killing, and I don't think he's valorized in a Rooftop Moping way.

WTWT can be done effectively, and my reaction is totally subjective, I know.

ha, I doubt we actually disagree intellectually on anything Pilots-based. I wonder even if my issues with them were partially that it wasn't where I wanted to spend such a high proportion of screen time, rather than anything about them or their interactions, which I do think could develop the characters in a way that couldn't have happened separately.

Pilots fandom, as sunny and enthusiastic as it is, can also be kind of a downer for me because (on a similar note to the Wes thing) of what I've seen of it, I feel like there's sometimes this environment of judgment and desire not to understand about Lee's collapse and so I avoid, but then I miss out on whatever it might add.

None of which is to say the ship itself is bad, because I definitely don't think that, but I think ( ... )

ever_neutral July 16 2011, 04:07:15 UTC

Yeah, I get what you're saying about too much time being dedicated to Pilots, mainly in S3. Even I was all, "GO AWAY" at them in parts, lol.

I feel like there's sometimes this environment of judgment and desire not to understand about Lee's collapse and so I avoid

Ha. Yes, as previously observed and discussed... :|

COMING SOON: ALL THE FEELINGS.

SDFLJD;KFJDS. haha. I am amused that you are hooked ALREADY, because I was pretty much ::unimpressed-face:: until like, the halfway point of the season. But, glad you're enjoying! And yeah, Ian S. was apparently chomping at the bit to get that role and is now evidently milking it for all its goddamn worth, lol.

lutamira July 15 2011, 16:59:03 UTC

I love this post!

Characters with perspectives that can or even should be viewed non-normatively, or at least, outside the morality of the other characters and mainstream audience.

Yes! This is a big one for me. (And if I do this meme, I'm totally stealing this one from you. ;)

Your commentary on ships rang so many bells. I always ship people because I like seeing them together and want them to interact more and on more and more more intimate levels. Josh/Donna (who I surprised myself by shipping despite their overly normative gender issues) ended for me when the PTB separated them but tried to keep the WTWT narrative going at the same time. And this:

it lays into the treads of more traditional concepts of virginity, and sex as immediate toxin. The first time is still all that counts in this view of romance.

No freaking joke. When will this trope go away? I'll tell you when: it will go away at exactly the same time our culture stops dealing in double-standarded sexuality and shaming.

Finally, this made my day: (ie, Wes/Faith ( ... )

pocochina July 16 2011, 01:40:13 UTC

Josh/Donna (who I surprised myself by shipping despite their overly normative gender issues) ended for me when the PTB separated them but tried to keep the WTWT narrative going at the same time.

yes! I am frequently on the Josh/Donna train when I rewatch isolated episodes. It doesn't disturb me as a pairing. I just started to feel strung along and manipulated by it, and that's a total turn-off.

hee! YOU ARE AWESOME. rareshipper fist bump all around.