I'm in the process of watching it now on the west coast, but from what I've seen/heard, I think I'm okay with him not wanting to leave this particular incarnation. My brother and I have a theory that the Ninth Doctor fell in love with Rose and when he regenerated into Ten, he subconsciously controlled his appearance to make himself appeal to her. Young, slim, handsome...that Doctor got all the girls, including the one he wanted, Rose
( ... )
It's not just that he didn't want to change that bothered me so much but the begging and the fact that for all of the things he's experienced in this life/body he still doesn't seem to have learned or changed. He still runs instead of facing his past or saying goodbye. He tries to change what he shouldn't and doesn't try to change what he could and then complains that the universe is unfair.
Honestly I'm having a very similar problem with this as I did with the end of BSG last year. There's a very good idea in it somewhere - and I think you've pulled it out - but what we actually get on the screen evidences none of that kind of level of thought. We're expected not to care or to make up our own excuses for people who don't give a crap about our opinions.
I completely agree with everything you just said. I was expecting something more, and I felt very put-off by the blatant self-indulgent nature of the story. I was pretty peeved that this was how Ten went out - wailing about death - because that's not how I want to remember him.
As I said above I found this similar to the end of BSG in the manner of disappointment. I was really hoping that we would see some character growth before the regeneration, but apparently it's just easier to change to a whole new character.
i was kind of distracted for a while by the thoughts that the master was 'skeletor!' and the time lord president was 'james bond with an immortality complex!' so yeah, when they were battling? 'dude! skeletor and james bond are duking it out!' but yes, i agree. simms must have a blast with all those costumes.
i really, really didn't like when ten started in on the "why me?!" business. he's over 900 years old, at what point does he start growing up? (plus, i get it. tennant can change emotions tones in an instant. really, i get it.)
But there was a part of me that just kept insisting this was so wrong; self-indulgent and meaningless.that's what i was thinking. yes, it was his (and i guess RTD's) way of saying goodbye, but it felt more like a reiteration of the golden theme: he stands alone in the end. and by now, i kind of don't care. actually, i think that was the problem. i didn't care as much as i should have. outside of donna and wilf, of course. i really watched for donna's story because i love her and i wanted a happy ending
( ... )
Yeah, the Skeletor v. Bond thing was cute. There was some other pop culture reference that cracked me up, but I can't remember.
As I said above...It's not just that he didn't want to change that bothered me so much but the begging and the fact that for all of the things he's experienced in this life/body he still doesn't seem to have learned or changed. He still runs instead of facing his past or saying goodbye. He tries to change what he shouldn't and doesn't try to change what he could and then complains that the universe is unfair.
And I think part of the reason so many of us have stopped caring that he's alone is because we've seen him choose to be alone or at least fail to choose not to be alone. I'm with you in wishing Donna had gotten a little more.
Yes, the lack of obvious makeup probably helped with keeping Billie looking young.
I'll probably watch at least a little bit of 11 eventually, but not with the immediacy or the fan girling as I started out watching Who with.
I agree with a lot of things that belismakr said. Her take on things is exactly how I feel and she expressed a million times better than I could.
In the confidential, RTD said he made it a point to call it a death (and not a regeneration) since to him it truly felt like one. In previous incarnations, there have been doctors (seven?) that have not wanted to regenerate and expressed that they did not want to.
Yes, did the Doctor take the easy way out one more time? Yes. The whole going back and seeing everyone who was important to him felt cheesy and I think he should've used the time to "REALLY" say good-bye instead of leaving his companions (Martha looked really upset) without a word. But to me, it felt like a death and I don't have a problem with the Doctor crying that he didn't want to die.
I really love belismakr's take on things, but like I said to her, I don't think they actually put that on the screen and I'm tired of having to fanwank and make excuses for everything. I'm tired of everyone (because it wasn't just the Doctor but also RTD et al) taking the easy way out, though I shouldn't have expected any better given my reaction to COE.
Gotta love the fanwank, it's every where. How did you feel about COE, I think I missed that post. I hope that they bring back another series of Torchwood. I need to make sense of that whole thing!
I tell you, I like RTD but man, can he bring on the cheese sometimes. I was rewatching Journey's End the other day and it kinda was cheesy. And a little to bow tie neat, but sooooo cheesy!
Oh, I don't think I actually wrote a COE post, but I talked myself out pretty well in this comment thread (links to rabid1st's journal).
Short version is - I thought RTD pulled a load of crap out of his ass, gave us a plot that has holes big enough to drive a semi through, and used emotional shock to substitute for true substance. And to quote myself I think taken alone it was beautifully tragic. BUT in it's proper context within in RTD's Whoniverse the beautiful part of it falls out because there's been too much tragedy. Nine giving up a regeneration to save Rose - beautifully tragic. Even Doomsday. But add in LotTL, Voyage fo the Damned, JE, End of Days, and Exit Wounds and tragedy becomes a pattern not a surprise.
They've actually had an order for another season of Torchwood I believe, but I have no idea how they're going to set it up.
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Honestly I'm having a very similar problem with this as I did with the end of BSG last year. There's a very good idea in it somewhere - and I think you've pulled it out - but what we actually get on the screen evidences none of that kind of level of thought. We're expected not to care or to make up our own excuses for people who don't give a crap about our opinions.
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i really, really didn't like when ten started in on the "why me?!" business. he's over 900 years old, at what point does he start growing up? (plus, i get it. tennant can change emotions tones in an instant. really, i get it.)
But there was a part of me that just kept insisting this was so wrong; self-indulgent and meaningless.that's what i was thinking. yes, it was his (and i guess RTD's) way of saying goodbye, but it felt more like a reiteration of the golden theme: he stands alone in the end. and by now, i kind of don't care. actually, i think that was the problem. i didn't care as much as i should have. outside of donna and wilf, of course. i really watched for donna's story because i love her and i wanted a happy ending ( ... )
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As I said above...It's not just that he didn't want to change that bothered me so much but the begging and the fact that for all of the things he's experienced in this life/body he still doesn't seem to have learned or changed. He still runs instead of facing his past or saying goodbye. He tries to change what he shouldn't and doesn't try to change what he could and then complains that the universe is unfair.
And I think part of the reason so many of us have stopped caring that he's alone is because we've seen him choose to be alone or at least fail to choose not to be alone. I'm with you in wishing Donna had gotten a little more.
Yes, the lack of obvious makeup probably helped with keeping Billie looking young.
I'll probably watch at least a little bit of 11 eventually, but not with the immediacy or the fan girling as I started out watching Who with.
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In the confidential, RTD said he made it a point to call it a death (and not a regeneration) since to him it truly felt like one. In previous incarnations, there have been doctors (seven?) that have not wanted to regenerate and expressed that they did not want to.
Yes, did the Doctor take the easy way out one more time? Yes. The whole going back and seeing everyone who was important to him felt cheesy and I think he should've used the time to "REALLY" say good-bye instead of leaving his companions (Martha looked really upset) without a word. But to me, it felt like a death and I don't have a problem with the Doctor crying that he didn't want to die.
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I tell you, I like RTD but man, can he bring on the cheese sometimes. I was rewatching Journey's End the other day and it kinda was cheesy. And a little to bow tie neat, but sooooo cheesy!
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Short version is - I thought RTD pulled a load of crap out of his ass, gave us a plot that has holes big enough to drive a semi through, and used emotional shock to substitute for true substance. And to quote myself I think taken alone it was beautifully tragic. BUT in it's proper context within in RTD's Whoniverse the beautiful part of it falls out because there's been too much tragedy. Nine giving up a regeneration to save Rose - beautifully tragic. Even Doomsday. But add in LotTL, Voyage fo the Damned, JE, End of Days, and Exit Wounds and tragedy becomes a pattern not a surprise.
They've actually had an order for another season of Torchwood I believe, but I have no idea how they're going to set it up.
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