Ooh, How Disrespectful of You!
There's this guy, Rener Gracie.
This post isn’t about him; it's a rant about all the complaints on how women are treated as sex objects when men comment on their looks ( http://joreth.livejournal.com/97329.html), or how women who want men to appreciate their bodies have nothing better to offer (http://cafe.themarker.com/view.php?t=44957 - in Hebrew).
Complaints like this always annoy me… but this time, they made me think of Rener Gracie. For those of you who don't know, he's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt and instructor; he teaches in Torrance, California, and posts series of wonderful instructional videos on YouTube. Now, Rener is one of the greatest teachers I have ever seen, in any field. It's not just his amazing skills - his attention to detail, his focus on the internal logic of the moves, and most importantly, his contagious enthusiasm and passion to the art are all something like I have never seen before. On top of that - Rener is funny, humble, easy-going, unbelievably charismatic… and really hot! ;-)
And that's why joreth 's post made me think of him - because, apparently, among all the opinions I just shared with you about Rener, this last one was entirely inappropriate! Apparently, I shouldn't be thinking this at all! Because it's, like, so totally disrespectful to him! Or whatever. And if I have the indecency of noticing Rener's good looks, at least I should keep these bad, shallow thoughts to myself - and certainly not compliment him on his looks, if I ever get to meet him in person…
Just imagine the horror: Rener, enjoying a day on the beach with a company of friends, notices me staring at his shirtless torso with a goofy smile on my face… I raise my eyes to his, blush and say: "Wow, man… you look so great!"
According to many people, if I understand them correctly, the appropriate response by Rener would be to be repulsed and offended by my remark. Apparently, he should freak out and snap at me that he didn't undress in order to get my attention! He should scold me for being so rude and disrespectful and treating him as a sex object! He should lament on the fact that I chose to compliment him on something so shallow and vain, instead of focusing on his multi-faceted personality, his skills and achievements. Yada, yada, yada.
You've all heard this before. Many, many people are constantly trying to convince us that this is the appropriate reaction - and for some reason, these people are always women talking about come-ons by men…
Now: someone, anyone, please tell me - is it just me, or this whole idea is F@#%ING INSANE seriously flawed?!
Why on earth admitting that someone is attractive is disrespectful? Why is it implied that if I enjoy one aspect of someone, then I necessarily ignore all the other aspects? If I like someone's body, why does it mean that I don't care for their personality? Or, on the receiving end - if I want men to like my body (which I do!), why does it imply that I have nothing else to offer? People, embrace the power of "and"! Don't let anyone confuse you by false dichotomies!
It's pretty funny that admiring someone's body is labeled as objectification, while admiring their work isn't. After all, were I to compliment Rener on his teaching, wouldn't that be objectifying him as well? There is, after all, much more to Rener than Gracie Jiu Jitsu! Actually, there was one person I know who really insisted on this broader definition: he tried to convince me that I should be offended if someone describes me as "a really good programmer", for example, because that takes the emphasis away from my more important human traits. Or something.
Not only do I find this whole "objectification" accusation completely ridiculous - I actually find it extremely offensive. Wait, don't laugh yet, let me explain. The (often tacit) assumption that if you are sexually attracted to someone, then you disrespect them - this assumption lies at the core of most of such reasoning, and it is very alarming. For me, the opposite is true - thinking that someone is hot and being interested in their personality are two nearly perfectly correlated things. Like, duh? This is the perfectly normal and healthy correlation - not an exception to the rule. And so I think it's pretty creepy when people imply the opposite correlation as the baseline, because all it does is reveal some pretty screwed up attitudes to sex on their part, which they then project onto me - which I find very offensive!
Now, the real fun starts when people try to claim that this idea is true in only one direction. You see, when a woman says that a man is hot, she's being perfectly normal, healthy, assertive, and in peace with her sexuality - but when a man says that a woman is hot, then he's treating her as a sex object, he's being disrespectful, sexist, primitive, yada-yada-yada. Get it? It's that simple! Actually, I love hearing this one - because it just settles once and for all who is really being sexist here. So, guys - next time you tell a girl she looks great and get the word "sexist" thrown at you - just throw it right back at her!
There is nothing wrong with appreciating someone's beauty, exactly as there's nothing wrong with appreciating their wit, skill or charisma. It doesn't make you shallow. There's nothing wrong with finding someone hot. It doesn't make you an asshole. It doesn't mean you're treating them as a sex object.
OK, OK, I know that this issue is far more complex than I'm trying to make it sound here (I should probably write another post about it when I calm down :-)). I'm not saying one should disregard the accepted communication norms; on the contrary: what really worries me is, that due to the combined efforts of some very vocal women (who always claim to speak for the majority), these norms start to shift in the direction where soon it will become rude to say to someone "Wow, you look great!" And this really sucks.
This post isn’t about him; it's a rant about all the complaints on how women are treated as sex objects when men comment on their looks ( http://joreth.livejournal.com/97329.html), or how women who want men to appreciate their bodies have nothing better to offer (http://cafe.themarker.com/view.php?t=44957 - in Hebrew).
Complaints like this always annoy me… but this time, they made me think of Rener Gracie. For those of you who don't know, he's a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt and instructor; he teaches in Torrance, California, and posts series of wonderful instructional videos on YouTube. Now, Rener is one of the greatest teachers I have ever seen, in any field. It's not just his amazing skills - his attention to detail, his focus on the internal logic of the moves, and most importantly, his contagious enthusiasm and passion to the art are all something like I have never seen before. On top of that - Rener is funny, humble, easy-going, unbelievably charismatic… and really hot! ;-)
And that's why joreth 's post made me think of him - because, apparently, among all the opinions I just shared with you about Rener, this last one was entirely inappropriate! Apparently, I shouldn't be thinking this at all! Because it's, like, so totally disrespectful to him! Or whatever. And if I have the indecency of noticing Rener's good looks, at least I should keep these bad, shallow thoughts to myself - and certainly not compliment him on his looks, if I ever get to meet him in person…
Just imagine the horror: Rener, enjoying a day on the beach with a company of friends, notices me staring at his shirtless torso with a goofy smile on my face… I raise my eyes to his, blush and say: "Wow, man… you look so great!"
According to many people, if I understand them correctly, the appropriate response by Rener would be to be repulsed and offended by my remark. Apparently, he should freak out and snap at me that he didn't undress in order to get my attention! He should scold me for being so rude and disrespectful and treating him as a sex object! He should lament on the fact that I chose to compliment him on something so shallow and vain, instead of focusing on his multi-faceted personality, his skills and achievements. Yada, yada, yada.
You've all heard this before. Many, many people are constantly trying to convince us that this is the appropriate reaction - and for some reason, these people are always women talking about come-ons by men…
Now: someone, anyone, please tell me - is it just me, or this whole idea is F@#%ING INSANE seriously flawed?!
Why on earth admitting that someone is attractive is disrespectful? Why is it implied that if I enjoy one aspect of someone, then I necessarily ignore all the other aspects? If I like someone's body, why does it mean that I don't care for their personality? Or, on the receiving end - if I want men to like my body (which I do!), why does it imply that I have nothing else to offer? People, embrace the power of "and"! Don't let anyone confuse you by false dichotomies!
It's pretty funny that admiring someone's body is labeled as objectification, while admiring their work isn't. After all, were I to compliment Rener on his teaching, wouldn't that be objectifying him as well? There is, after all, much more to Rener than Gracie Jiu Jitsu! Actually, there was one person I know who really insisted on this broader definition: he tried to convince me that I should be offended if someone describes me as "a really good programmer", for example, because that takes the emphasis away from my more important human traits. Or something.
Not only do I find this whole "objectification" accusation completely ridiculous - I actually find it extremely offensive. Wait, don't laugh yet, let me explain. The (often tacit) assumption that if you are sexually attracted to someone, then you disrespect them - this assumption lies at the core of most of such reasoning, and it is very alarming. For me, the opposite is true - thinking that someone is hot and being interested in their personality are two nearly perfectly correlated things. Like, duh? This is the perfectly normal and healthy correlation - not an exception to the rule. And so I think it's pretty creepy when people imply the opposite correlation as the baseline, because all it does is reveal some pretty screwed up attitudes to sex on their part, which they then project onto me - which I find very offensive!
Now, the real fun starts when people try to claim that this idea is true in only one direction. You see, when a woman says that a man is hot, she's being perfectly normal, healthy, assertive, and in peace with her sexuality - but when a man says that a woman is hot, then he's treating her as a sex object, he's being disrespectful, sexist, primitive, yada-yada-yada. Get it? It's that simple! Actually, I love hearing this one - because it just settles once and for all who is really being sexist here. So, guys - next time you tell a girl she looks great and get the word "sexist" thrown at you - just throw it right back at her!
There is nothing wrong with appreciating someone's beauty, exactly as there's nothing wrong with appreciating their wit, skill or charisma. It doesn't make you shallow. There's nothing wrong with finding someone hot. It doesn't make you an asshole. It doesn't mean you're treating them as a sex object.
OK, OK, I know that this issue is far more complex than I'm trying to make it sound here (I should probably write another post about it when I calm down :-)). I'm not saying one should disregard the accepted communication norms; on the contrary: what really worries me is, that due to the combined efforts of some very vocal women (who always claim to speak for the majority), these norms start to shift in the direction where soon it will become rude to say to someone "Wow, you look great!" And this really sucks.