Buffy 5x04 Out of My Mind

[oyceter]

Comments

[jcalanthe]

You've summed up exactly how I feel about Riley I think. I was OK when Joss opened the door to guy having issues with stronger, more powerful girlfriend, cuz I thought, cool, this is a timely thing to talk about, cuz there's a bunch of guys who struggle with such a thing, and Joss is gonna take us thru the issue and show how it's possible for a guy like that to cope. But no, we never made it all the way thru, and I'm still disappointed in how that was handled. Thinking about it now, it reminds me some of how the fallout from Billy on Angel never got shown/dealt with - the guys do horrible, misogynist things, and it's never mentioned again after that ep.

[lakrids404]

The main thing that I took notices in Billy, that all males got declared primeval misogynist?!!. And there are countless of other example where Buffy/Ats writer, have a very negative angle on males The Beauty and the Beast, compare the suspect, and in the end non-consequential patriarchal Watchers Council with matriarchal Guardians. I do like the shows, but somebody should tell Joss, that being a feminist is not about showing males as an amoral sub-species of humanity.

[oyceter]

Yeah, the primal misogyny thing is pretty dumb. But I would also have to argue that Joss' version of feminism can be rather reductive at times -- witness the current gender imbalance on Angel and Angel the show's tendency to treat its female characters as perfect things to be protected or admired (and Angel the character, now that I think about it).

[jcalanthe]

I actually think the Jossverse has all sorts of examples of men as not amoral, as well as alternate versions of masculinity. I appreciate that they do acknowledge that living in the current society affects men too - of course Wesley, having grown up surrounded by the patriarchal Watchers Council, struggles with sexism. But I wouldn't call Wesley or Giles or Xander or Riley or Doyle amoral. Even Spike and Angel, male vampires who are supposed to be amoral, aren't.

As to Billy in particular, yea, I'm not really excited about the message that all men are primally misogynist either. I could have forgiven the clumsiness of the premise more if there'd been more payoff.

[lakrids404]

Yes but Riley was also fucked up mentally from the drugs he didn’t get anymore. He was a leftover from an amoral behaviour project, which had consequences for him that nobody could predict. If you have the time, should you check out the story Another Peaceful War
, it is with Riley going home, in between season 4 and 5, or trying to.

[oyceter]

Yeah, it's true that the drugs had a great deal of influence over him, but I'm still rather annoyed that it manifested itself as anxiety over his manliness.