There are times I get bothered and/or puzzled not so much by the content of certain requests but rather by the assumptions that seem present in them. Or, more accurately, I can't quite determine what's part of the request and what's just an assumption of the OP.
Let me explain: this applies to other bits of characterisation too, but chiefly I'm thinking of requests for yaoi pairings with stated top/bottom preferences, when the OP seems to think the preferred position is actually wildly implausible for the character, needing special circumstances to happen.
Which is quite fine with me if the OP genuinely thinks so, but... it's just that I don't always get whether the response must share those assumptions as well, tailoring the fic for it - or if it's also okay with a response from a writer who happens to think that position is eminently plausible for the character/pairing in question, thus feels no need to write in those special circumstances
( ... )
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 15:37:19 UTC
I said I don't get it. That's not questioning it. I also said I like noncon, to give a possible parallel for something that would connect to the sort of preference you're talking about. I'm aware how the discussion started out. I'm very conscious, though, from discussions I've seen off-meme, that some comments made in the past (in discussions I was involved in too) made ZoLu fans in particular feel unwelcome. I get uneasy now when discussion starts up critiquing any group of shippers preferences in these sort of general terms. That's all I have to say.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 15:49:44 UTC
Anon can't help but be feel horribly curious about what those comments were about. I've never noticed any comments like that, but then again, I'm not a ZoLu fan. Unless it's that discussion where some people said they didn't see ZoLu as a fluffy couple, I noticed that one, or the people who had trouble seeing Zoro forcing Luffy to have sex when he was injured or traumatized.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 15:59:36 UTC
Those are among the ones I figure people are talking about. I think these discussions might have had an effect in making groups of fans feel unwelcome. As this thread actually demonstrates, it can be hard to predict what will upset or offend at times.
And WOW I have a big mouth, because I've been involved in most of these and lookie here now. *tries to shut can of worms*
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 16:36:47 UTC
I don't want an argument, that's the opposite of what I want. I'd like people to come back and enjoy the meme and not feel like there's all these grudges drawn along the lines of which way around we like our pairs because after all we all love the characters and the show.
(OP) Wait wait, I was wrong to start this in the first place? I thought the purpose of the dicsussion thread was for us to vent this kind of thing here so it would be kept out of the meme itself?
I don't really want to start a flame war or anything either, so I apologise if I've misunderstood.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 16:40:37 UTC
I really don't know. The purpose of the original comment seems to have been the opposite to my mind... a kind of 'all things are good'. The discussions tend to have been attached to prompts in the past, which is more problematic. An 'i can't see this...' sort of thing.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 17:21:47 UTC
(rest of reply)
I know discussion post->discussion but I'm so aware now of how many of these end up in the territory of commenting on a popular pairing or its fans in a negative way and nobody I think has mentioned before how those fans... maybe there aren't so many of them posting on the meme anymore. Plus I don't think anyone has, on here, actually posted on a bottomZoro request or fic to say "that's the wrong way around!!!"* It's happened with ZoLu though.
*I could be wrong on this. I don't remember any.
Anyway my head hurts and I'm going to shut up. I feel a bit weird and guilty about this discussion.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 17:27:46 UTC
Please, someone has actually gone "that's the wrong way around!!!" about ZoLu on here? Point me towards the request where this happened, I have to see this for myself.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 17:51:09 UTC
Hell, there are over 50 pages of this thing and I've been here since page 6, I give up. It may not have been said in those exact words but I'm sure it's been at the very least heavily implied a few times.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 18:01:03 UTC
I've been here since page 8 or 9, I think (I didn't request in the beginning). I can't remember ever seeing anyone saying those exact words, though I can remember someone saying they're unable of writing bottom-Luffy because it clashes with how they see him, or something. But that's not the same thing as them saying that bottom-Luffy is wrong, and someone has also commented that they an a lot of other people can't write bottom-Zoro.
Re: Assumptions
anonymous
April 20 2009, 17:58:10 UTC
[Random anon] Probably not what you were looking for, but off the top of my head (since I don't remember where exactly) someone had mentioned they preferred Luffy on top to which an anon replied something along the lines of having restored faith in people's sanity. Which kind of implies that ZoLu fans were the ones who were insane (that's how I read it anyways.)
Let me explain: this applies to other bits of characterisation too, but chiefly I'm thinking of requests for yaoi pairings with stated top/bottom preferences, when the OP seems to think the preferred position is actually wildly implausible for the character, needing special circumstances to happen.
Which is quite fine with me if the OP genuinely thinks so, but... it's just that I don't always get whether the response must share those assumptions as well, tailoring the fic for it - or if it's also okay with a response from a writer who happens to think that position is eminently plausible for the character/pairing in question, thus feels no need to write in those special circumstances ( ... )
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And WOW I have a big mouth, because I've been involved in most of these and lookie here now. *tries to shut can of worms*
Reply
(OP) Wait wait, I was wrong to start this in the first place? I thought the purpose of the dicsussion thread was for us to vent this kind of thing here so it would be kept out of the meme itself?
I don't really want to start a flame war or anything either, so I apologise if I've misunderstood.
Reply
Reply
I know discussion post->discussion but I'm so aware now of how many of these end up in the territory of commenting on a popular pairing or its fans in a negative way and nobody I think has mentioned before how those fans... maybe there aren't so many of them posting on the meme anymore. Plus I don't think anyone has, on here, actually posted on a bottomZoro request or fic to say "that's the wrong way around!!!"* It's happened with ZoLu though.
*I could be wrong on this. I don't remember any.
Anyway my head hurts and I'm going to shut up. I feel a bit weird and guilty about this discussion.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
[Random anon] Probably not what you were looking for, but off the top of my head (since I don't remember where exactly) someone had mentioned they preferred Luffy on top to which an anon replied something along the lines of having restored faith in people's sanity. Which kind of implies that ZoLu fans were the ones who were insane (that's how I read it anyways.)
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