Tbqh, I didn't make it through this whole thing. (TL:dr and all that.) But this part jumped out at me, and I'd like to comment on it.
The leftist sees capitalism as a horror, and believes that so long as money and profit rule the earth, human beings will be made miserable and will destroy themselves. The liberal does not actually believe this. Rather, the liberal believes that while there are problems with capitalism, it can be salvaged if given a few tweaks here and there.
When I read something like this, I find myself wondering several things. First, how widespread is this stance, that capitalism really is a nothing but an unmitigated "horror" that can't possibly be salvaged in any way, shape, or form? That seems very extreme to me, enough so that I can't help but think it must be a minority opinion. And second, for those who do believe this, exactly what do you propose to do about it?
To completely eliminate capitalism seems like a pretty radical goal to me. I can't imagine the logistics of making that happen, even IF a
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I'mgoing to add something as a p.s. to my long reply, because I already edited the fuck out of that post, and I don't want to mess with it anymore.
None of what I have said will be news to leftists, most of whom know full well that their disagreements with Democrats go well beyond the merely tactical. But I think it’s worth spelling out clearly, because it’s reasonable to wonder just how deep the division really goes, versus how much of it is unnecessary warring over issues of strategy. And while I am a firm believer that the enemy of my enemy is my temporarily politically useful coalition partner, the answer is that the divide goes very deep indeed.
I agree that this is worth spelling out clearly. If we're going to be able to work together at all, all of us need to know where everybody else stands. And if (God forbid) we really aren't going to be able to work together... well, we need to know that, too, the sooner, the better.
As for how deep the divide really is and whether it really is unfixable, I think a lot depends on how many
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No replies? I'm disappointed! I was really curious about how people envision this "smashing capitalism to bits" thing being put into practice. Not that I want to do that myself--like I said, it sounds awfully drastic to me--but I would like to understand it better, including how those who want to do this propose to accomplish it.
Ehh. I finally got around to re-reading this thread and it's hard to subjectively talk about "Capitalism" as it's so ingrained into the US that the whole country would have to collapse first.
But yeah. Unrestrained Capitalism, which is what we've had for as long as I've been alive (thanks Reagan, thanks Clinton, thanks all!) is an unmitigated horror. Capitalism as a concept basically relies on eating its own tail (resources) for as long as you can to make things as efficient as you can and screw the rest. The crash in 2008? Unrestrained Capitalism. Huge oil spill in 2010? Capitalism because god forbid BP fix or even acknowledge a problem that might hurt their cash flow. Our healthcare system and how pharma, hospitals, medical equipment were all made to actually make more money and not make people better? Also Capitalism. Planned obsolescence, subsidizing gas companies because somehow that keeps the price low, lifelong college loans (And believe me - every part of college is designed to squeeze money from students, not
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there i fixed it
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Pretty much!
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Tbqh, I didn't make it through this whole thing. (TL:dr and all that.) But this part jumped out at me, and I'd like to comment on it.
The leftist sees capitalism as a horror, and believes that so long as money and profit rule the earth, human beings will be made miserable and will destroy themselves. The liberal does not actually believe this. Rather, the liberal believes that while there are problems with capitalism, it can be salvaged if given a few tweaks here and there.
When I read something like this, I find myself wondering several things. First, how widespread is this stance, that capitalism really is a nothing but an unmitigated "horror" that can't possibly be salvaged in any way, shape, or form? That seems very extreme to me, enough so that I can't help but think it must be a minority opinion. And second, for those who do believe this, exactly what do you propose to do about it?
To completely eliminate capitalism seems like a pretty radical goal to me. I can't imagine the logistics of making that happen, even IF a ( ... )
Reply
I'mgoing to add something as a p.s. to my long reply, because I already edited the fuck out of that post, and I don't want to mess with it anymore.
None of what I have said will be news to leftists, most of whom know full well that their disagreements with Democrats go well beyond the merely tactical. But I think it’s worth spelling out clearly, because it’s reasonable to wonder just how deep the division really goes, versus how much of it is unnecessary warring over issues of strategy. And while I am a firm believer that the enemy of my enemy is my temporarily politically useful coalition partner, the answer is that the divide goes very deep indeed.
I agree that this is worth spelling out clearly. If we're going to be able to work together at all, all of us need to know where everybody else stands. And if (God forbid) we really aren't going to be able to work together... well, we need to know that, too, the sooner, the better.
As for how deep the divide really is and whether it really is unfixable, I think a lot depends on how many ( ... )
Reply
Reply
But yeah. Unrestrained Capitalism, which is what we've had for as long as I've been alive (thanks Reagan, thanks Clinton, thanks all!) is an unmitigated horror. Capitalism as a concept basically relies on eating its own tail (resources) for as long as you can to make things as efficient as you can and screw the rest. The crash in 2008? Unrestrained Capitalism. Huge oil spill in 2010? Capitalism because god forbid BP fix or even acknowledge a problem that might hurt their cash flow. Our healthcare system and how pharma, hospitals, medical equipment were all made to actually make more money and not make people better? Also Capitalism. Planned obsolescence, subsidizing gas companies because somehow that keeps the price low, lifelong college loans (And believe me - every part of college is designed to squeeze money from students, not ( ... )
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