my bad, i misread and thought you meant the surrogate parents.
it's still disgusting that you (and others) are sitting around having a high-horsed moral debate on whether this woman deserves bodily autonomy and to be paid for the work that she's done. in addition, i know you didn't say this: I think that when you agree to be a surrogate you are kind of giving up the decision making regarding your own uterus and body. but you did respond to it uncritically.
honestly, i don't know what else to say. the fact that poor women have very little recourse in the situation she was in actually makes me feel ill. that people are judging her for that makes me feel ill. the casually dehumanizing way and derogatory way in which this woman is being discussed (like a contract supercedes her rights as a human being) is makes me feel ill.
Actually, I have said several times that I support and vehemently defend her bodily autonomy, nor have I said that the contract supercedes her bodily autonomy. I have said that they are two separate issues, the fact that you're making assumptions, and ignoring facts in order to legitimize your non sequitur is very telling.
I don't support a contract that supports a forced abortion, I support her a contract that stipulates when it might or might not be appropriate to terminate a pregnancy, and a support the fact that such a exists so that the parties entering into this contract with everything laid out.
But that still does not negate her bodily autonomy, if her final word is no then NO, or if a surrogate decides she cannot go through with the pregnancy then she has every right to terminate the pregnancy. It is her body, she has the right to decide what risks she is willing or willing to take.
However, her bodily autonomy also doesn't negate her contractual agreements. She can break her contract, but as with all contracts there are penalties.
Both those of these are true, it sucks, and it's one of many reasons I think surrogacy sucks, but I don't think either negates the other.
no matter what papers a woman signs, no matter what agreement she comes to with others she is a person and her bodily autonomy is her own
I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying that IMO her primary motivation in all this was money. I think she went to Michigan thinking that she could have the kid and sue the parents for the medical bills and "other expenses"... and that didn't pan out, so she found adoptive parents instead.
I think very few people are arguing that the contract negates her bodily autonomy, what people are saying is that she is still an adult human and as such has the obligations and responsibilities of one. She couldn't go through with the abortion, even though I would probably have made a different choice I vehemently defend her right to that choice, but also when an adult enters into a contract then breaches is there should be consequence --and it's not a forced abortion but some sort of monetary consequence. IMO she has forfeited some of her salary.
It's disturbing that so many are purposefully misframing the issue.
she has forfeited some of her salary, the rest of the money she was going to be paid out for the child. she has done the work she was paid for already, in carrying the child for the original adoptive parent for several months. suing her for money already paid is extremely coercive and violates her reproductive freedom.
yes, it sucks, for them that they put out thousands of dollars and aren't getting the baby they wanted. but pregancy is not a sure thing in any circumstance, and no matter their feelings the bodily autonomy of this woman comes first. yes, they signed a legal document including abortion as an option, but kelley's human rights supercede that. you cannot force someone to have an abortion because they signed a legal document.
they paid for the surrogacy in a fellow human being with the understanding that things could go not as planned. they hired a woman, not a fucking incubator.
she did the job that she was paid for. and yes, telling a poor woman she needs to abort a child or she's going to be sued for thousands of dollars she cannot afford is coercive.
if you think that's acceptable just admit it, don't play pretend there's no balance of power here.
No one held a gun to her head and forced her to be a surrogate for this particular couple. She could have found a couple who would have agreed to a "NO ABORTION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER!" clause in the contract, since this would (allegedly) be keeping with her personal beliefs unless they're willing to pay $15,000.
I have such very mixed feelings about surrogacy for all of these reasons. I understand that it's a necessity for some people, but the whole "renting a womb" thing is just so very problematic.
I find it problematic mostly because it re-enforces our societies desire for white newborns. And the whole using poor women from third world country element. Ugh.
It wasn't her choice to make.
And honestly, I hate people who are against abortion but a-ok with IVF. Fucking hypocrites.
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it's still disgusting that you (and others) are sitting around having a high-horsed moral debate on whether this woman deserves bodily autonomy and to be paid for the work that she's done. in addition, i know you didn't say this: I think that when you agree to be a surrogate you are kind of giving up the decision making regarding your own uterus and body. but you did respond to it uncritically.
honestly, i don't know what else to say. the fact that poor women have very little recourse in the situation she was in actually makes me feel ill. that people are judging her for that makes me feel ill. the casually dehumanizing way and derogatory way in which this woman is being discussed (like a contract supercedes her rights as a human being) is makes me feel ill.
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But that still does not negate her bodily autonomy, if her final word is no then NO, or if a surrogate decides she cannot go through with the pregnancy then she has every right to terminate the pregnancy. It is her body, she has the right to decide what risks she is willing or willing to take.
However, her bodily autonomy also doesn't negate her contractual agreements. She can break her contract, but as with all contracts there are penalties.
Both those of these are true, it sucks, and it's one of many reasons I think surrogacy sucks, but I don't think either negates the other.
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but here's the thing
shockingly
no matter what papers a woman signs, no matter what agreement she comes to with others she is a person and her bodily autonomy is her own
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no matter what papers a woman signs, no matter what agreement she comes to with others she is a person and her bodily autonomy is her own
I'm not arguing with that. I'm just saying that IMO her primary motivation in all this was money. I think she went to Michigan thinking that she could have the kid and sue the parents for the medical bills and "other expenses"... and that didn't pan out, so she found adoptive parents instead.
All IMO, of course.
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It's disturbing that so many are purposefully misframing the issue.
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yes, it sucks, for them that they put out thousands of dollars and aren't getting the baby they wanted. but pregancy is not a sure thing in any circumstance, and no matter their feelings the bodily autonomy of this woman comes first. yes, they signed a legal document including abortion as an option, but kelley's human rights supercede that. you cannot force someone to have an abortion because they signed a legal document.
they paid for the surrogacy in a fellow human being with the understanding that things could go not as planned. they hired a woman, not a fucking incubator.
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No, it doesn't.
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if you think that's acceptable just admit it, don't play pretend there's no balance of power here.
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No one held a gun to her head and forced her to be a surrogate for this particular couple. She could have found a couple who would have agreed to a "NO ABORTION UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER!" clause in the contract, since this would (allegedly) be keeping with her personal beliefs unless they're willing to pay $15,000.
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I have such very mixed feelings about surrogacy for all of these reasons. I understand that it's a necessity for some people, but the whole "renting a womb" thing is just so very problematic.
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Yeah, it's horrendous.
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And, if more situations like this one come up, I'm guessing the number of women from third world countries used will only increase.
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