Saw this being discussed all over Tumblr - Crowley 8.07

[onci_dium]

but I hate trying to follow any discussions on Tumblr, so thought I would bring it here

and for the love of Mark Sheppard (or Crowley) don't forget to join sheppardsflock

Comments

[candygramme]

I am convinced that the Fergus thing has been retconned and they are grooming Crowley to be a fallen angel - he's far too powerful to be your average demon.

[onci_dium]

I'm thinking so too.

He seemed to know Metatron personally. And the angel knife thing.

Could it be that he knew he'd have been No 1 on Lucifer's Hit List because he's a brother?

[candygramme]

Very likely. And we all know that Metatron's secret identity is Alan Rickman. Perhaps he should be told.

I noticed the angel knife. It made me wonder too.

[onci_dium]

I dunno. Mark Sheppard and Alan Rickman on one show? The world would implode under AWESOME

conversely.. what would the children look like?

Yeah, the angel knife was surprising. I mean Crowley has ways of getting one, BUT would an angel knife kill a demon?

[princess_schez]

My thoughts (and I'm probably wrong, lol), are that he was indeed Fergus, but he's been in Hell over 400 years - and being an ambitious kinda guy - moved up the demonic ranks faster than, say, Ruby, who was in Hell longer.

Given his knowledge of angels/personalities, he could've had dealings with them at some point in the past. I think he made a comment once about how he's "been selling sins to saints for centuries." I think it's definitely possible he knew Azazel for a time, and gathered intel from him about the angels.

But, on the other side of the coin, Crowley being a fallen angel is very interesting. I mentioned it on a Spn board last season, 'cause at the time no one had seen what his demonic eye color was... which led to some speculation. On that aspect, my theory was he was a lusty angel who wound up getting a woman pregnant, and fell some time after that. (This theory could also explain why he and his son abhor one another, lol. Most angels - even fallen - aren't a big fan of humans

[onci_dium]

Hiya! Sorry it took a while to get back to you, but I read through your message and found a lot of interesting points.

I think you could be right on the he had dealings with the angels and might not have been one himself, but I am thinking more and more the whole Fergus thing was a sham. Crowley is TOO smart and TOO ambitious to have been a two-bit tailor who wanted a bigger cock. He rose to being Lilith's right hand pretty quick, and I think he was ranked above Alistair in torture.

I like the fallen angel theory, selling his Grace and all. Seeing as Anna could not have been the only one to do that, right?

It was that Castiel pulled the angel knife to do battle with Crowley, and Crowley pulled his own. Now, crowley's is probably stolen, for sure. But, why would Castiel want to use the angel killing knife on Crowley?

And no, you're not the only one with a pinwheel fetish now ;) It's all over Twitter and Tumblr. Think you will see it pop up in fic any day now

[princess_schez]

Very true. He did become Lilith's right hand man very quickly, and she didn't seem like the type to just allow *any* demon into her entourage - much less (if you go with what Becky said and Chuck wrote) become her lover. I didn't know about him being ranked above Alistair in torture, though last night's eppy certainly was giving that impression. Interesting that the student surpassed the master, if Alistair was the one who tortured Fergus/Crowley in Hell.

Anna definitely couldn't have been the only angel to lose/sell her Grace. I can't help but wonder about Azazel, who we know was a fallen angel.

My only thought on why Castiel pulled the angel knife on Crowley was because he didn't have access to the demon knife, but even then, it's still highly suspect.

Ah, the pinwheel fetish, lol. I'm gonna be dreaming about that tonight, lol.

[onci_dium]

Exactly. I mean he was in tight with all the higher up demons and for a punk ass crossroads demon? I don't think that'd happen. At most, he'd be a hanger on.

Yeah, I think there was a certain amount of the student surpassing the master there. And I love that we now see that Crowley actually IS evil, not just highly amusing in snark.

Well and Crowley's red eyes are close to Azazel's yellow ones, more lizardy.

And that could be it with the Castiel pulling the sword he had. But does it work on demons or only other angels?

You and a few other ladies. I think Mark s will be getting gifted with pinwheels forever.

[a_phoenixdragon]

Well...good question. He did jump that one angel and use his own weapon against him (which might be the one he wielded against Castiel), but he seems to gather those a lot. He's quickly risen through the ranks and in terms of power. His title was powerful, but there was no way the top crossroads demon should have been able to become the King of Hell. Maybe he's Beelzebub or one of the other ranking demons that was 'rumored' to be an angel.

*HUGS*

[onci_dium]

See that's what I was thinking. He went from Lead crossroads to Lilith's Right Hand in a matter of months. Then? King of Hell.

That's a pretty quick climb for someone who's been a demon for 400 years. And he has no love of demons, we've seen it.

And he knew Lucifer was gonna put a cap in his ass personally. Not just go "whoosh all demons gone". Even before he gave the Winchesters the Colt. Sounds a little grudgey to me

*hugsback*

[a_phoenixdragon]

I've noticed something else...he doesn't lie so much as twist and/or omit TRUTH. Something angels are good at, but demons...not so much.

He despises demons. He had nothing but contempt for everyone from Lilith to Lucifer himself. Not only that, but he seems to have had an easier time popping in and out of Hell at any time.

This is also the same demon that said that access to 'Heaven and Hell was easy' but Purgatory was not. But if he can walk into HEAVEN...hmmmm - and he seems easy with the idea, like he knows what is up there or has at least had a peek.

Yup. Sounds like he and Lucy had history...which shouldn't be possible. But i think even CROWLEY doesn't know (or remember) the whole story. I truly hope they give us a little more info...

Course, I love the smooth way he handles everything. Only the WINCHESTERS seem to rattle him. But humans...free will...unpredictable. Still, he is one of the few that doesn't EVER underestimate them. Finally - a Bad Guy that has SENSE.

*grins*

[onci_dium]

Yes. Remember what Dean said about "getting" demons, people are crazy? I think poor Crowley feels the same way. Which is why he has longevity.

Yeah, his comments about walking into Heaven and Hell, was interesting in hindsight for sure.

Yeah, I think all signs are pointing to him being more than just a garden variety demon with ambition