Saw this being discussed all over Tumblr - Crowley 8.07

[onci_dium]

but I hate trying to follow any discussions on Tumblr, so thought I would bring it here

and for the love of Mark Sheppard (or Crowley) don't forget to join sheppardsflock

Comments

[princess_schez]

My thoughts (and I'm probably wrong, lol), are that he was indeed Fergus, but he's been in Hell over 400 years - and being an ambitious kinda guy - moved up the demonic ranks faster than, say, Ruby, who was in Hell longer.

Given his knowledge of angels/personalities, he could've had dealings with them at some point in the past. I think he made a comment once about how he's "been selling sins to saints for centuries." I think it's definitely possible he knew Azazel for a time, and gathered intel from him about the angels.

But, on the other side of the coin, Crowley being a fallen angel is very interesting. I mentioned it on a Spn board last season, 'cause at the time no one had seen what his demonic eye color was... which led to some speculation. On that aspect, my theory was he was a lusty angel who wound up getting a woman pregnant, and fell some time after that. (This theory could also explain why he and his son abhor one another, lol. Most angels - even fallen - aren't a big fan of humans...)

Or, he sold his angelic grace (which I take is like an angel's soul) for those "three extra inches," thus taking him from being an angel to being a mere human, but he still retained his angelic knowledge of their hierarchies.

Sorry for talking you ear off, lol. (Also, was I the only one who though he made the pinwheel sexy? lol)

[onci_dium]

Hiya! Sorry it took a while to get back to you, but I read through your message and found a lot of interesting points.

I think you could be right on the he had dealings with the angels and might not have been one himself, but I am thinking more and more the whole Fergus thing was a sham. Crowley is TOO smart and TOO ambitious to have been a two-bit tailor who wanted a bigger cock. He rose to being Lilith's right hand pretty quick, and I think he was ranked above Alistair in torture.

I like the fallen angel theory, selling his Grace and all. Seeing as Anna could not have been the only one to do that, right?

It was that Castiel pulled the angel knife to do battle with Crowley, and Crowley pulled his own. Now, crowley's is probably stolen, for sure. But, why would Castiel want to use the angel killing knife on Crowley?

And no, you're not the only one with a pinwheel fetish now ;) It's all over Twitter and Tumblr. Think you will see it pop up in fic any day now

[princess_schez]

Very true. He did become Lilith's right hand man very quickly, and she didn't seem like the type to just allow *any* demon into her entourage - much less (if you go with what Becky said and Chuck wrote) become her lover. I didn't know about him being ranked above Alistair in torture, though last night's eppy certainly was giving that impression. Interesting that the student surpassed the master, if Alistair was the one who tortured Fergus/Crowley in Hell.

Anna definitely couldn't have been the only angel to lose/sell her Grace. I can't help but wonder about Azazel, who we know was a fallen angel.

My only thought on why Castiel pulled the angel knife on Crowley was because he didn't have access to the demon knife, but even then, it's still highly suspect.

Ah, the pinwheel fetish, lol. I'm gonna be dreaming about that tonight, lol.

[onci_dium]

Exactly. I mean he was in tight with all the higher up demons and for a punk ass crossroads demon? I don't think that'd happen. At most, he'd be a hanger on.

Yeah, I think there was a certain amount of the student surpassing the master there. And I love that we now see that Crowley actually IS evil, not just highly amusing in snark.

Well and Crowley's red eyes are close to Azazel's yellow ones, more lizardy.

And that could be it with the Castiel pulling the sword he had. But does it work on demons or only other angels?

You and a few other ladies. I think Mark s will be getting gifted with pinwheels forever.

[princess_schez]

True, the likes of Alistair, Lilith, and Azazel would've looked down upon a lowly crossroads demon, in the same way that Crowley looks down upon the black-eyed demons. So he obviously had something going for him that enabled him to be part of the big-fish crowd. And it's interesting just how quickly Crowley was able to wrestle control of Hell the moment Luci was back in his cage.

We do know that the angel sword works on Hellhounds, Meg proved that in "Caged Heat." We were never shown if it works on anything else

Now I know what to bring Mark when I go to the LV con next March, lol.

[etoile444]

And when Cas laid his magic angel hand on Crowley (at the end of season 6) nothing happened!!! Hmmm, shouldn't it!