Comments | nonfluffypagans: On Discouragement

ragnvaeig in nonfluffypagans

On Discouragement

May 12, 2010 21:53

I had a discussion with a friend about a particular prospect who is currently considering dedicating himself to religious path that's at least very similar to the one I've chosen. Without having any real information on said prospect's level of commitment, to me this person seems to have an incomplete understanding of what this particular deity ( Read more... )

Comments 62

witchofnovember May 13 2010, 03:31:56 UTC

Wait. There's a god of biscuits? How do I get in touch with his Holy Fluffyness? I ask as a sincere seeker who's biscuits are missing something.

No real observations just drug induced silliness. (More migraine pills please.)

ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 03:51:14 UTC

There is! (at 2:56)

pombagira May 13 2010, 04:26:20 UTC

no god of biscuits but there is Bob the God of sheep and prosperity..

*laughs*

To Discourage or Encourage? dragonhearth May 13 2010, 06:35:25 UTC

I don't discourage, but I do want to know if the person seeking my coven, for example, has done their homework. They may ask to join my coven but have no idea what they are asking. I ask, "Have you read my coven's website?" If the answer is no, I tell them to read it and get back to me with questions. The site itself is a bit elitist snobby, so that helps me weed out people who have no idea that this is a Great Work and not just a social club ( ... )

Re: To Discourage or Encourage? ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 11:31:38 UTC

I've likened joining any group to a blind date for all involved, so that makes sense.

If someone were to ignore blithely your request to know what your group's mission statement is and still be interested in joining, would you simply not vote to admit them?

Re: To Discourage or Encourage? dragonhearth May 13 2010, 14:44:09 UTC

We don't vote, we use consensus. However there is more of a process than that. I have an orientation meeting where we outline the 4 years and what is required of the novice, then Initiate, then 2nd and 3rd Degrees. Before they make it to an orientation meeting I do some of that one on one with them and then tell them if they are still interested to get back to me at the time of year when we take on students. We take an application from them which has a number of questions they need to answer. Then the applications go with us to our coven's annual retreat and we decide on the member then. Usually someone who makes it as far as an application form is going to be approved. But the discouraging part is the honesty we give about the level of commitment required to become a part of the coven.

Re: To Discourage or Encourage? dragonhearth May 13 2010, 14:49:10 UTC

I don't think I answered your question. If they ignored my request to read the coven website, which has some information about joining the coven on it.. they would then hear what is on the website (and much more) in a one on one orientation discussion.

I have actually discouraged someone from applying once or twice when I knew they were not a proper person. I told one person who kept asking that I did not want them to have too many problems as a result of their studying Craft. And "things" happen to people who choose to do this. So if they are not firmly grounded, ie, have a good job, a secure home life, etc, the upheaval that takes place when studying seriously can really mess their life up and can end up in them not being able to complete their training. I did discourage that person, and they went OFF on us and I was glad I had not gotten further in the application process with them.

Thread 5

edwarddain May 13 2010, 12:59:23 UTC

*hrmph*

As someone who was included on a list by some one I like and respect as someone "who they wished was teaching more" I've actually thought about this to a degree.

For one, I'm honest with "seekers" (for lack of a better term) - as another here mentioned that alone is usually enough to dissuade a number of people. It's not my job to coddle people and the best instructors I've had have not done so (esoteric, academic and professional).

Also, as other folks have noted, if you do study with me, it involves, well, work (and a certain amount of intellectual rigor if the truth is to be told). I don't do a formal contract, but people find out very quickly that I don't suffer a great deal of BS from somebody I'm teaching or mentoring. Finding out that you are expected to read Eliade's Shamanism just so I can make sure we are operating from at least certain basic understandings is usually a good gauge of commitment in my book ( ... )

ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 19:07:33 UTC

...unless I've been told by Deity to get involved I don't really think it's any of my business to discourage....

What if you think the "seeker" might be making the approach for the wrong reasons, or may have an incomplete grasp of what the deity in question does?

Hubris. edwarddain May 14 2010, 16:44:22 UTC

How do I know what the "right" or the "wrong" reasons are? They are not asking to dedicate themselves to me - so it's really between them and the Divine.

Same thing with "an incomplete grasp" - who am I to say that they will or will not only be working with a highly limited aspect of the Deity in question?

Or perhaps my version of Deity is off and the other person is more correct than I am? That's a rabbit-hole for the philosophically inclined, but the possibility always exists ( ... )

Re: Hubris. ragnvaeig May 14 2010, 16:59:08 UTC

...well if that's the angle you want to put on it, how would one determine that it is *not* the deity's wish that I talk to this person and be an avenue of information and reason?

(The comment has been removed)

ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 19:09:30 UTC

I'll turn them down and explain that it's not a good fit.

I think that sounds reasonable.

How much personal detail are you willing to give to a potential student regarding your experiences, if you think they're relevant to the choices said potential student might need to make?

(The comment has been removed)

ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 19:27:02 UTC

Have been trying to come up with a useful but excruciatingly clear way to de-personalize it and still get my point across beyond, 'I do not think it means what you think it means.' May come at it from your tack--thank you.

jenett May 13 2010, 13:23:11 UTC

- I want to discourage people who are not the right fit for doing this particular work with me (and by extension, my coven) from doing it with me ( ... )

ragnvaeig May 13 2010, 19:13:58 UTC

What are your criteria for a "right fit", if you don't mind the question?

jenett May 13 2010, 20:02:31 UTC

A combination of things: I have some of them posted on the coven website, so people can self-select if we sound like not their thing. (Scattered throughout, but particularly in the Seeking Membership section, though I'm condensing here ( ... )