I have only had one cup of coffee, and it was nasty and disgusting, but I agree with you on #2. (Haha. #2. That's funny.) It's an idea I've seen tossed around in other communities -- human belief creates gods. I think it's interesting, and hope someone answers who does believe that, so I can see the idea fleshed out more.
Separate existence, yes. Of some sort. However, if not worshipped, they vanish from human-accessible space. They become "gone" to us, and lose their connections to our world.
They don't need us to exist--they do need us to maintain a connection to this world.
This means they may appear to be "created through belief," as before belief/active worship, they were unknown to humanity.
Kinda like, "did the bank exist before anyone put any money in it? Does it continue to exist if all the money is removed from it?" It may have an existence as a company or corporation, but it can be hard to claim it's a "bank" if there's no money holding/exchanging going on.
Gods, I believe, have an existence outside of their contact with humanity--but it may not be correct to call them "gods;" they're no longer "godding."
This sort of dovetails with our experience, but I'm not sure I entirely agree -- we've had some dealings with beings I generally call "lost gods" -- clearly gods, in clearly recognizable deity patterns, clearly NOT the same being as other gods with similar jobs Who history does recognize one way or another, and clearly still performing Their functions according to Their natures... but lost to human culture at some point
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1. How do you define deity? (Archtypes, individual entities, different facets of some greater unknowable divine, etc.)
individual entities with distinct personalities. After all they don't always get along w/ each other either.
2. Do all gods exist that have believers? Are gods created through belief, or do they exist outside belief?
Outside. It's in the mythology and I firmly believe if humans didn't exist anymore. My gods still would. They don't actually need people. They want them.
3. If you believe gods take interest in specific peoples lives -- why would they do that? How does that benefit the god?
I'm not sure of their methods to be honest. But there seems to be a certain criteria for them to even take interest. And if they take interest that doesn't gurentee that want you to worship them. Sacrifice is one of the criterias it seems for their interest. If you aren't willing they won't be interested.
4. How do you see the relationship between a god and a human?
People are slaves to the gods. I view my relationships this
I have a set of beliefs that I follow with the religion. The slavery thing is a part of it. But I love being that way with them personally. I can't say there are any beliefs within the religion I personally disagree with anyway.
Of course I have my own personal beliefs, but it's UPG. (Unsubstaniated Personal Gnosis) Not actually being canon within the context of the beliefs I follow. But at the same time I had a lot of UPG that conferred with history and what we know about the Aztecs through science. (I'm a Aztec reconstructionist btw.)
Great questions. Right now I'm kind of in a phase of quasi-philosophical semi-agnosticism, but just for the sake of exploring beliefs, here's my current take
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I probably spend too much time in atheist communities, these daysglitteringlynxOctober 19 2008, 15:16:10 UTC
1. How do you define deity? (Archtypes, individual entities, different facets of some greater unknowable divine, etc.)
I've always seen the more as archetypes than actual entities, though I've tried to believe the latter.
2. Do all gods exist that have believers? Are gods created through belief, or do they exist outside belief?
Again, I see them as archetypes for certain things. The brain is very good at deluding us even when we don't want to be deluded. Perhaps if I wasn't as familiar with neuroscience and mental illness as I am, I would think otherwise.
But then, aside from one event (which could very likely have been my imagination), I've never had contact with deity, either. I tried for 11 years and it just didn't happen.
3. If you believe gods take interest in specific peoples lives -- why would they do that? How does that benefit the god?It doesn't really make sense that they would be able to understand everyone's desires at once, or that they would be so concerned about our minor mundane lives as to grant assistance
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1 and 2 are interrelated for me. I believe that some deities are individual entities, beings that exist in a different plane but have the ability to travel from plane to plane. I'm uncertain as to whether or not they get power from worship but I consider it a possibility. I also consider it possible for humans to create gods. I pretty much think that anything someone thinks is real, is, on some level or another. My partner's entire spiritual system revolves around the idea of deities as idealized archetypal models that are also material and personal. He and his friends often make up their gods, give them personalities, perform some sorts of ritual to them, and attribute phenomena to them. When the believers stop believing or the material object that 'houses' the deity is gone, the deity ceases to exist
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Separate existence, yes. Of some sort.
However, if not worshipped, they vanish from human-accessible space. They become "gone" to us, and lose their connections to our world.
They don't need us to exist--they do need us to maintain a connection to this world.
This means they may appear to be "created through belief," as before belief/active worship, they were unknown to humanity.
Kinda like, "did the bank exist before anyone put any money in it? Does it continue to exist if all the money is removed from it?" It may have an existence as a company or corporation, but it can be hard to claim it's a "bank" if there's no money holding/exchanging going on.
Gods, I believe, have an existence outside of their contact with humanity--but it may not be correct to call them "gods;" they're no longer "godding."
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individual entities with distinct personalities. After all they don't always get along w/ each other either.
2. Do all gods exist that have believers? Are gods created through belief, or do they exist outside belief?
Outside. It's in the mythology and I firmly believe if humans didn't exist anymore. My gods still would. They don't actually need people. They want them.
3. If you believe gods take interest in specific peoples lives -- why would they do that? How does that benefit the god?
I'm not sure of their methods to be honest. But there seems to be a certain criteria for them to even take interest. And if they take interest that doesn't gurentee that want you to worship them. Sacrifice is one of the criterias it seems for their interest. If you aren't willing they won't be interested.
4. How do you see the relationship between a god and a human?
People are slaves to the gods. I view my relationships this
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Do you follow some specific set of beliefs of have you come to this conclusion personally? Or some combination thereof.
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Of course I have my own personal beliefs, but it's UPG. (Unsubstaniated Personal Gnosis) Not actually being canon within the context of the beliefs I follow. But at the same time I had a lot of UPG that conferred with history and what we know about the Aztecs through science. (I'm a Aztec reconstructionist btw.)
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I've always seen the more as archetypes than actual entities, though I've tried to believe the latter.
2. Do all gods exist that have believers? Are gods created through belief, or do they exist outside belief?
Again, I see them as archetypes for certain things. The brain is very good at deluding us even when we don't want to be deluded. Perhaps if I wasn't as familiar with neuroscience and mental illness as I am, I would think otherwise.
But then, aside from one event (which could very likely have been my imagination), I've never had contact with deity, either. I tried for 11 years and it just didn't happen.
3. If you believe gods take interest in specific peoples lives -- why would they do that? How does that benefit the god?It doesn't really make sense that they would be able to understand everyone's desires at once, or that they would be so concerned about our minor mundane lives as to grant assistance ( ... )
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