so flame wars

[pombagira]

i had an interesting questions asked of me today, namely why pagan message boards flare up into monumental name calling, bitch slapping, flame wars?

so why do you think message boards, online communities and email lists of the pagan variety sometimes devolve into flame war? (especially considering paganism in general prides itself on tolerance.)

Comments

[moon_ferret]

I am going to 2 cents it right off the bat. ( STUNNING, I KNOW! ;) )

Yeah, we aren't any more tolerant of stupidity or ignorance than any other group that can be held under a large umbrella. I am tolerant of other's religions, but not asshattery.

Having spent time on non-pagan message boards, we flame just as regularly as they do. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

I am still trying to figure out why people think I am tolerant just because I am not Christian. (not specifically you...) I am human and was raised both in my religion and in my personal life to not suffer fools gladly. Paganism being such a cross section of humanity is not priding itself on tolerance. I swear only the people who have never tried to plan a pagan get together think that. Shit, my husband and I aren't even on the same path, but he *is* a CR and we all know that they are pretentious bastards. (HI SWEETIE!)

[nicanthiel]

LOL.

IAWTC

Icon love!!

[madfedor]

But I can't decide if old Frank is spinning in his grave or spinning from laughter. :-D

Re: Icon love!!

[moon_ferret]

I need one that references using the Bene Gesseret voice with my children and people who irritate me. Most mothers have it. Oh, and apparently people who work with animals, too.

The first time I saw it it made me laugh really hard since we had been arguing the politics of Dune in my living room the night before when I walked in with the next round of beer and declared them all nerds. Then, I chose an icon that brands me one too...

[wrenlet]

*tilts head* You mean, why aren't pagans somehow immune to the interpersonal dynamics that make almost ALL message boards flare into occasional name-calling and bitch-slapping? Couldn't tell you.

[ragnvaeig]

You mean not everyone who holds a particular ideal lives up to it? I'm shocked, I tell you.

[lilairen]

Heh. That was my thought.

[freyaw]

LOL yeah. One board I was on deteriorated beautifully when we had this lovely argument between two people about the meaning and common usage of the word 'impact'. Essentially in context the original post used it poorly and the original poster couldn't understand why we had issues with the meaning of the sentence. And then the second person kept the argument going (I ended up filtering all posts by the original poster).

[saturn_returned]

I agree very strongly with this - that the community attracts a great deal of "incompletely socialized" people.

[ogam]

Ay-MEN. Yea, verily. SMIB. Forsooth. Biodh sé amlaidh. Dude.

[rhiannonbw]

Whilst the truth of your statement is painful to acknowledge, you're bang on the nail. In my brief time in paganism I've come across more nutters than you'd find in a whole train load of 'people you really hope don't sit next to you'. A huge proportion of pagans suffer from some kind of mental or physical illness or disability, and that's not a slur. It's a fact. Most of them get on with it quietly (and thereby earn themselves the rare title of 'sane and sensible pagan', a few of them talk about nothing but their illness, but if you don't watch yourself carefully you suddenly find you either have a stalker or someone with a severe personality disorder deciding you are their Goddess or their enemy, or sometimes even both at the same time. Care in the Community doesn't work.

[meetzemonsta]

Most?

[dibeartach]

I think Pagandom is diverse, and a lot of people have a lot of different, very strong, opinions. Perfect recipe for trouble ;-)

[researcher]

Moreover, there is an idea among Pagans that they SHOULD agree on this, that, or the other, which makes for a certain sense of betrayal or anger when someone doesn't agree. "Pagans don't believe in THAT, they believe in THIS!" The idea that pagans do not all follow the same dogma is hard for some to fathom.

[smarriveurr]

This.

Aside from the fact that every community has its flame wars, enough pagans tend to think "All real pagans are/believe X" that they step on each other's toes all the time, with vehemence.

"Of COURSE I cross-posted the call to arms about the dairy industry, all real pagans are vegan animal-rights activists! It's an article of faith! That's what my mentor taught me! I don't see why everyone's so mad!"

The fora that avoid flamewars tend to be built on a very concrete common factor, with an agreement not to diverge from that common interest (and a proactive modstaff). You don't post about (e.g.) your politics or sexuality in a knitting discussion group - but people feel fine associating their politics and sexuality to their religion, and since the group is "pagan"... boom. "Paganism" as an umbrella doesn't really qualify as a concrete common factor that's "safe".

[saturn_returned]

My own experience, of being impeached from my position as president of a campus pagans group because I was Asatru and didnt believe in the Great Goddess is a personal anectdote that would support your assertion.