Israeliness in all of its seriousness [israel, random, judaism, rl, public post]

[naatz]

While I procrastinate and drink my coffee, I want to talk about what it means to be Israeli. This is probably going to be one of a few posts on the subject

Comments

[abbigail_cross]

My attention span must be improving. I read that. All of it.
I think... I think americans need to step it up. We may be free, but being free didn't ever give us the right to go crazy and act like monkeys.

Isreali's are ideal. In mannerisms and things. They say what they mean, and mean what they say. There's no middle ground. I think being an isreali would be... an experience. One where americanisms have little influence.

-Abbi
(excuse me for any... misinterpretations of what you'd written.)

[naatz]

Well, I did try to make it readable. :)

Israelis aren't perfect, but Americans aren't either. There are a lot of things I like in the American culture, but I think there's a reason why I'd feel more at home in Istanbul than in Melbourne.

Israelis could use some of the American sense of privacy. Americans could use some Israeli honesty.

Being Israeli is a bit of a culture shock to the immigrants, let me tell you that. ;)

|Meduza|

[kairia]

Love this post :D

There's also the issue that a person who keeps quiet is considered clueless. Jews for ages have cultivated learning and knowledge from a young age until death. Boys, girls, women, men, young, old, adult. You have to learn, you have to think, and you have to learn the different interpretations and different opinions and you have to choose what works for you best.That's awesome

[naatz]

Love this post :D
- I thought you might. I actually comforted myself with thoughts about you reading it when I wondered who'd bother to read it. :P

Hmm. I'm a bad person to talk to about that sort of familial relations, because my family dynamics are kind of fucked up in that regard. Most Israelis would consider how I speak to my parents as extremely rude {!}, but that's the way we're used to, so, yeah. I do respect them, and they know that, and that's enough for us.

Do your grandmother/parents/siblings mind your being 'rude'? Are they encouraging it?

{LOL -- when I spent Rosh HaShana with a religious family, we were A LOT of people in that place. A LOT. It was pretty amusing.}

|Meduza|

[kairia]

- I thought you might. I actually comforted myself with thoughts about you reading it when I wondered who'd bother to read it. :P
Awwwww.

Haha, the values aren't necessarily acted upon. Pakistani families seem to have descended straight out of a soap opera; they're that dysfunctional xD

yeah. I do respect them, and they know that, and that's enough for us.
My sentiments exactly. My sisters-in-law were surprised at first but they got used to it. I use the honorific for sister-in-law when talking to them so I suppose they have nothing to complain about xD
My brothers never cared but I do remember my sister telling me to not use her first name. I tried for a day then gave up
My maternal grandmother lives in Lahore so I've never socialized with her that much. She's here now and I get the feeling she thinks I'm stubborn. I like to stay barefoot and she kept telling me to wear socks/shoes. Heh.

[naatz]

Urdu has honorifics for siblings and siblings-in-law? XD That's really nifty. What are they and what do they mean? XDDD

lol@grandmama. Yeah. Grandparents tend to think that.

Pakistani families seem to have descended straight out of a soap opera; they're that dysfunctional xD
- Don't they all . . .

|Meduza|

[mad_troll]

..this is interesting.
I disagree with some assumptions (It's also a result of the sheer amount of time people spend together, or have spent together. [...] We have to learn how to argue, we have to learn how to not be offended, we have to learn to speak up and say what we think, otherwise our needs and wants could get overlooked) and can barely understand some others, but I think that whenever I don't understand something about Israeli, I'll come back to re-read this post.

[naatz]

Why disagree? If you look at it with the rest of the arguments {lol, pun} {traditions of debating, Arab influences} and how they come into play in a society that spends a lot of time with each other, I think it's credible enough. The worst son in the Hagada out of the four is the one who doesn't know how to ask {I think}. According to Wikipedia, he has to be sent to learn so he'd find what to ask about. :)

This post is very simplistic, I admit, but it has the basics. :)

|Meduza|

[mad_troll]

See kairia's comment.

Large gatherings don't imply the necessity for arguing, or speaking up [directly]: those can be answers, but they're specific to the social sets that recognize them as the only (or the most) functional expressions for such needs and wants.
So "prolonged gatherings = necessity to argue/debate/discuss" is valid only within the premise "arguing/debating/discussing = sole/most acceptable interaction mode".

Which..ah..leads us back to "Israeli manners are so because they're a by-product of Israeli social norms", the same way that Italian, or German, or Spanish or X manners are.
y/n?

[naatz]

Well, yes. But nothing exists in a vacuum, and that makes things sound too simplistic. But yes. You're completely right.

|Meduza|

[graeco_celt]

This was very interesting to read.
Thanks for sharing. :)

For what it's worth, I don't find you rude. I don't necessarily agree with every single thing you say (although, often, it's not really a ase of right/wrong anyway, it's a question of perceiving things in different ways) but I really don't find you rude.

I've seen you attacked recently, in a way thatI thought was completely unwarranted.
There are ways of disagreeing with someone or even pointing out that you felt a bit offended by X comment, without being a wanker about it. Sadly, all of the people who have never learned that particular skill are out there on the internet. :S

[naatz]

I never thought people should agree with my opinions always. Yeah, I see reality in a certain way, but so do the others, and there's enough room for all opinions! With reservations. And aw, I'm glad you don't think I'm rude.

Yeah. Recent wank has been . . . wanky. I was muttering incoherently with crossed-eyes over some of those comments. Oi. I'd never call anybody what I've been called there the way they did. :X

|Meduza|

[musicchan]

I'm not sure I entirely agree that it's all about being Israli. I'm not saying you don't have your own specific social traditions, but much of what I read is not foreign to my own family life. People who don't understand those sort of interactions seem like they must be from extremely small families. I guess I just don't understand how people can think of your way of being as so foreign. I certainly don't. Maybe that's because I've known you for so long, but I don't think it's just that

[naatz]

It's not all about being Israeli, true, but it's about expectations from others. I'm actually a lot more polite online {and in English} than I am in Hebrew. I don't act all that differently online and offline. I don't feel like I can be a whole lot more aggressive online than off -- maybe it influences more people who come from more politeness-demanding societies? I don't know. It's like they say 'oooooooooh, INTERWEBZ. I CAN BE ANGRY HERE.'

I met a lot of different people here. I didn't go to {elementary} school with people like me, I wasn't in the military with people like me, in Jerusalem I'm not exactly with people like me. Like I said, Israel is a lot more heterogeneous than the US, simply because there's no place to ghetto {unless you're Haredi/Arab}.

Yes, it is interesting, but I'm not going to start that sort of study. :P

You ARE fairly blunt and direct in RL. You just choose your timing well. Or maybe I just know you too well.

I miss ya. ♥ Poke that Onii-chan mine and tell him I miss him too.

|Meduza|

[musicchan]

He has been poked accordingly. :)

I can be rather blunt in real life, though I think I am MORE so with people I know online, simply because I've already shown that I'm not as quiet and shy as I usually appear to be. I am rather shy, actually. I have troubles talking to people face-to-face if I don't already know them. But once I DO get to know a person, I tend to be more open with them.