The argument fanboys have at every convention, ever

[mystickeeper]

For n00bs to the anime scene: "Shounen" (or shonen) manga is that which is marketed toward boys. The girls are often voluptuous and useless and kidnapped, and the protagonist boys have EPIC ANGST that must be overcome. This angst is always overcome by fighting, be it ninja-style or ghost-killing style. The protagonist's goal is usually to level

Comments

[tigrin]

You will change your mind about Bleach after the first arc. Trust me. The newer chapters of Naruto are actually better than Bleach IMHO, because Bleach has settled into a rut of long fights between minor characters that no one cares about.

[mystickeeper]

Oh no!

That is really sad. Frickin' a, now I'm going to have to start reading Naruto again, :(

Maybe I'll read 30 volumes of Bleach first, so that they're even.

What sad news!

[tigrin]

Yeah, it makes me kind of sad because I felt the same way about Bleach as you do when I was first reading it, and I've completely changed my mind since then. The first couple of arcs are just Ichigo attempting to rescue some helpless girl... actually I think the second one is still going, he hasn't rescued her yet... I don't even know what's going on anymore.

Naruto actually interests me more lately because they're actually developing the characters a bit and resolving things I never thought they'd resolve (such as Sasuke vs. Itachi! gasp). I haven't even seen the main characters in Bleach for weeks, possibly months now.

[mystickeeper]

Yeah, I read piles and piles of shoujo, so I'm trying to take baby steps into appreciating shounen stuff.

I did like *some* things about Naruto, but....not many, lol. At tigrin's recommendation, maybe I'll keep trying....

[sir_hellsing]

I hope you don't mind I comment here randomly, I was checking out hellsing' fl and this post showed up. Bleach commits every shounen sin after one of the female protagonist is taken for Ichigo to rescue. :/

Shounen is a tiny sexist, but shoujo is too against boys sometimes (they act as token romantic interest UNLESS they are a shounen-ai-friendly series).

[meganbmoore]

Really? The problem I have with a lot of shoujo is that so much of it eventually seems to be completely overtaken by the hero's (sometimes heroes') narrative, with the heroine almost a bystander in her story.

[britrock37]

I completely agree with this. I also feel like often times in shoujo manga, the girls are STILL portrayed as helpless and we're supposed to cheer for the nice guy, who ultimately never wins because masculine hero guy who is OBVIOUSLY the worse choice comes in and convinces the girl he can save her.

Almost as equally sexist. Only with less ninja/robot fighting. And the boys are sometimes still as angsty.

[meganbmoore]

Off the top of my head, the only shoujo I've read from beginning to end (that was more than one or two volumes) where it didn't let me down by eventually making it the guy's story are Basara (epically angsty alpha hero, but he never takes over her story, and in the end, it's still very much her story) W Juliet (fluffy romcom that stays equally focused on the 2 leads) and Night of the Beasts (dark romance where the heoine's boyfriend-and distant cousin-is possessed by a demon who wants to destroy their family). Magic Knight Rayearth almost qualified, but the ending there almost felt like it was more about Eagle than about Hikaru.

[meganbmoore]

Bleach does eventually sink into longer fights, but remain infinitely superior to Naruto in every way.

Though, a lot of it is that the mangaka actually likes more than 2 characters, especially the girls. Ichigo is still the lead, but it's much more ensemble, and did I mention that Tite Kubo actually treats the female characters as worthy entities, not necessary evils there to make a few guys look good?

[takumashii]

Shounen Jump is a weekly, and I think the incredible time pressure that involves - like, 20 or 30 pages scripted, drawn, inked, etc, every week!? - dooms even the best mangaka to Endless Epic Fights, especially when writer's block hits. The good shounen/seinen manga - they're out there! - are more likely to be found in the monthly magazines. (Lately I'm grooving on Piano no Mori, The Piano Forest.)

[mystickeeper]

OMG, is Piano no Mori a manga?! I thought it was only a movie!

[takumashii]

It IS, although as far as I know it hasn't been professionally translated. (There surely are scanlations out there, right?) I think they've even started issuing special editions of the manga with piano CDs included.

[lavendersleeves]

20 to 30? In a weekly comic? Try 14-17, with a lot of support staff. Those folks are rolling in money. Well, the publishers are, anyway.