i just wanna be a woman

[musesfool]

shaggydogstail articulates my problems with last night's episode in a pithier way than I managed.

sistermagpie also has a good post discussing the gender issues present in the episode.

Comments

[smilla02]

*nods along* I'm not sure I agree on Demian and Barnes being more eroic than Becky (who actually gave Dean and Sam the most important information - about the Colt - and possibly a mean to kill Lucifer, which is in a different league than banishing a ghost), but I can see how the fact that the two white guys got to be the heroes can rub people off wrong, so I'm not contesting it.

To them, Dean is a fictional character, and this guy is a cosplayer who takes it way too fucking seriously

That's what I got from the episode. Because Dean and Sam are still fictional to Barnes and Demian, they can romanticize them. I also think that in making them a couple, and one that is obviously happy, they are negating the 'my life is meaningless because I just have an ordinary job. I'm not sure that they'd trade life for more than a weekend, you know?

I rememebr watching Moonlighting and how funny it was when they talked to the audience.

[musesfool]

I'm not sure I agree on Demian and Barnes being more eroic than Becky

I think it was partly how it was presented? Becky gave Sam the information as an afterthought, a sop to his supposedly broken heart, so even though she provides important information, it's still out of her crazy state of thinking Sam is as infatuated with her as she was with him.

I dunno. I feel like if they had had more female fans who got to speak and do things, I would have liked the episode a lot better.

I also think that in making them a couple, and one that is obviously happy, they are negating the 'my life is meaningless because I just have an ordinary job. I'm not sure that they'd trade life for more than a weekend, you know?

*nodnod*

It's totally romanticizing their fictional heroes, which is what people do. It's a pleasant pastime, but I don't think anybody really wants to be Frodo or Buffy Summers or Harry Potter. Or Dean Winchester. Their lives suck!

[writingpathways]

What I loved about Demians speech at the end to Dean was I think the point was about -- Family. Everyday people, a lot of them don't have the type of love, loyalty and connection that Sam and Dean have and had with John. Some people are lucky enough to have that close knit family but a lot of everyday people don't have even that and to me that was the key to the speech that Demian gave Dean. They have each other and they can rely on each other through extraordinary circumstances and it is that draws him as a reader into it -- it even led him to his life partner and gave him a bit of that.

Also yeah Demian has no right to tell Dean about his life, but I saw it as sometimes you can't see something you are so close too and Dean needed a bit of outisde perspective.

[musesfool]

They have each other and they can rely on each other through extraordinary circumstances and it is that draws him as a reader into it -- it even led him to his life partner and gave him a bit of that.

*nod nod*

[sistermagpie]

I agree with you on finding the inclusion of the book series and Chuck clever in itself--it's peeking through the fourth wall without actually breaking it.

And I also agree about the speech at the end--he's not actually telling Dean his lives don't suck, he's explaining why he likes the books, which is a totally different thing. Which was undercut, imo, by another fan stereotype. If he hadn't for some reason talked about his job as boring and embarassing it wouldn't have sounded like he was telling Dean to be grateful he didn't fix copiers for a living. Really, why would he say that anyway? He would have assumed that Dean, as an even crazier role player, would probably have an even worse job.

[musesfool]

I agree with you on finding the inclusion of the book series and Chuck clever in itself--it's peeking through the fourth wall without actually breaking it.

Yeah, and I think narratively it gives them a lot of things to play around with - prophecy and what it means and how it actually works, and whether they can trust it going forward knowing that Zachariah can apparently screw around with the visions Chuck receives etc. I find it fascinating when fiction plays with that. I always think of Buffy and the Master: "But you died. it was written" "What can I say, I flunked the written."

If he hadn't for some reason talked about his job as boring and embarassing it wouldn't have sounded like he was telling Dean to be grateful he didn't fix copiers for a living. Really, why would he say that anyway? He would have assumed that Dean, as an even crazier role player, would probably have an even worse job.

Heh, yeah, but to me that was just part and parcel with the clunky writing of the show. It didn't even ping me.

[trinity_clare]

I feel like SPN has moved on from making fun of its fans to making fun of itself for having such a crazy fandom. And that almost has to be at the expense of the fans. All the funny bits from last night were aimed at the show's conventions (in the literary sense) - Dean talks with a growly voice, grave digging always seems so easy, etc. But when they want to show fans who aren't crazy, they have to make them up, because their idea of fandom is batshit insane.

[musesfool]

All the funny bits from last night were aimed at the show's conventions (in the literary sense) - Dean talks with a growly voice, grave digging always seems so easy, etc. But when they want to show fans who aren't crazy, they have to make them up, because their idea of fandom is batshit insane.

*nod nod*

Like, I get that they've seen a lot of crazy, but they could have come up with ONE non-crazy fangirl, ONE fangirl who also got what's awesome about Sam and Dean and saving people! hunting things!

[dotfic]

The show's meta on fans was fun for a while, until this episode, and then the bubble burst. Enough already