every breath i'm deeper into you

[musesfool]

Guys, I know this may be shocking, but when you have two guys in a threesome with a girl, and they're getting off on the other one being there and on watching each other have sex and stuff, even if they're not touching each other, they are engaging in homoerotic behavior. You can claim it's not boyslash (and technically maybe it's not, since girl

Comments

[yasminke]

Exactly. Yep -- just had this discussion with someone on why it's not "entirely het" ... and why it's not really a "YMMV" if the narrator is silent about the voyeuristic homoeroticism.

[musesfool]

Yeah, I mean... I don't get it. I know this happens a lot in published romance fiction as well, because god forbid we insinuate that our romance heroes might have a touch of THE GAY OMG, but it's so ridiculously insulting and off-putting.

And in the latter case, I can't imagine people who are truly squicked by incest not being put off by it as well.

[yasminke]

I don't get it either. Perhaps it's the suggestion that voyeurism doesn't affect sexuality (which I've heard argued). And, then again, huh? Maybe it's like the cone of silence, the cone of bi-sexuality/homosexuality.

Also, the incest arguers who don't see a threesome with siblings as equally off-putting? Do not get. I kind of think it's grosser: getting off (or joining in) while a sibling has sex with your g/b-friend? How can they not see it as simply circumnavigating the rules?

[musesfool]

voyeurism doesn't affect sexuality (which I've heard argued)

Okay, see, I can go with the notion that watching sex is sexy, regardless of the genders of the people involved, but at a certain point, when you've moved from porn to actively participating, you've crossed from fantasizing to acting, and there I'd say you're engaging in homoerotic (if not homosexual) acts.

Clearly, sexuality is complicated yada yada, but I don't think you have to be Kinsey to follow that.

the incest arguers who don't see a threesome with siblings as equally off-putting? Do not get. I kind of think it's grosser: getting off (or joining in) while a sibling has sex with your g/b-friend? How can they not see it as simply circumnavigating the rules?

I think that's the idea, though - technically, it's not incest so they can find it hot and not be like those gross people who get off on incest porn.

[sweetlittlefire]

oops last comment slightly offtopic. sorry
if we are thinking in technical terms then yes the sex would be het but i think it matters what motivation and desire is driving the sexual interaction. two men want to fuck each other through the girl then it's definitely homoerotic.

[sweetlittlefire]

and by last comment, i mean the last comment i posted on this and deleted.
sorry again. *headdesk* sorry i'm failing at a ton of things at the moment

[musesfool]

No worries.

[musesfool]

it matters what motivation and desire is driving the sexual interaction.

Exactly.

Just pondering....

[ruby_jelly]

This is just a question, to tease out my own ponderings; is ok?

Thought 1 - Is enjoying being watched symptomatic of exhibitionism moreso than homoerotic? (Ignoring the possible "joining in" of a threesome scenario.)

And thought 2 - what is the "fit" for a man watching het porn? Is viewing homoerotic in tendency/characteristic as well as, him watching just...ummm....I realise I actually don't know why men watch het porn.

and 3 - is this relevant in the same way for a woman?

ok- bubbling thoughts I really don't have answers for! lol, psychology basics, probably!

Re: Just pondering....

[executrix]

ruby_jelly: re #2, I'm convinced that one reason for the popularity of "lesbian" porn is precisely so the male viewer won't have to see any boyparts.

Re: Just pondering....

[musesfool]

*nod nod*

Re: Just pondering....

[musesfool]

1. I don't know - I think it depends on each individual, no? For one person, the exhibitionism might be more of a turn on than whoever is doing the watching, but for another, it might need to be that specific person.

2. I would guess that a guy watching het porn is putting himself into the place of the guy - as executrix says, lesbian porn made for men erases other men from the equation and allows the viewer to fantasize that he'll be invited to join in. Again, it's probably different for everybody, but generally speaking that would be my guess.

3. I think it depends on the woman in question. I mean, when you ask three fangirls, you get five opinions, you know? I don't think the general population is that different; they just don't want to discuss it in public.

[musesfool]

Heh. I enjoy that in stories as well, but I feel like the people who claim they're not Wincest are trying to eat their cake and have it too, which irritates me (same as the "gen, but Wincest if you squint" people - people who want to see Wincest will see it regardless).

[lembeau]

That wasn't supposed to have made me laugh, was it?

[musesfool]

Sure it was, but only because it's true.