the plans they made put an end to you

[musesfool]

I have four two Dreamwidth codes, should anyone want or need one. First come, first served. Comment with an email address.

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Comments

[mara_snh]

Thanks! I needed that.

[musesfool]

So did I! *g*

[musesfool]

Sent! I can screen this if you don't want your email address hanging out there.

[musesfool]

No worries.

[topaz119]

I like the concept of the demon blood being like anabolic steroids--they don't make you stronger, per se; they just allow you to work yourself harder than if you're not taking them. ::adopts::

Plus, it does give Ruby an extra manipulative hold on Sam.

Also, no, I don't want it to all go away next season. There's a symmetry they're working: both brothers betrayed what they define themselves by...Dean wasn't saving people, Sam wasn't the smartest one around, and together, they've brought on the apocalypse. oops.

[musesfool]

I like the concept of the demon blood being like anabolic steroids--they don't make you stronger, per se; they just allow you to work yourself harder than if you're not taking them.

*nod nod*

It makes the most sense to me. I mean, they don't have the same kind of withdrawal that opiates or alcohol do, but they do give you that personality change and the belief that you need them to perform at optimum levels, which were things that were definitely going on with Sam.

There's a symmetry they're working: both brothers betrayed what they define themselves by...Dean wasn't saving people, Sam wasn't the smartest one around, and together, they've brought on the apocalypse. oops.

Exactly! Everything they did came out of who they are, and past mistakes they've made and maybe haven't learned from until now.

[musesfool]

Sent! Do you want me to screen the comment with your email address?

[musesfool]

No problem.

[storybystory]

I really feel Sam’s choices all season have stemmed, not from pride, but desperation. I think “Metamorphosis” is a key episode--it cements for both brothers the idea that supernatural powers are irredeemably evil and uncontainable, but they reach this conclusion based on incomplete information, never learning about Travis’s real role in helping spur Jack’s final transformation

[musesfool]

I really feel Sam’s choices all season have stemmed, not from pride, but desperation.

Yes, and from his love of Dean and need to avenge/protect him. But Ruby appealed to his pride, his belief that he was the only one who could do it, that Dean wasn't strong enough, and Sam's always thought he knows best, and Ruby definitely played up on that as well.

I don't blame either of them, so much as I think they've both made terrible choices that come out of who they are and they have to learn that there's a smarter way to go about things than the ways they've chosen in the past.

[storybystory]

I have to admit, I think I'm feeling (more than a bit) defensive on Sam's behalf--I get that there's pride in there, but it seems so much more about fear. I read a lot of Sam's arrogance this season as a kind of false bravado--part of him truly believes his powers are as dangerous and evil as Dean and the angels insist, and that part also believes that their very existence has already tainted him beyond redemption, whether he uses them or not. Of course he'd cling to the hope Ruby offers, that maybe somehow they could be something else, something that wouldn't mark him as the kind of being those he loves most would seek to kill.

I know I was clinging to it for a while there, because I was finding it hard to invest in a storyline so powered by the conviction that Sam was already doomed a decade before he was born, no matter how he chose to live his life. (This may not be quite fair on my part--the show aside, I’m think I’m just wired to have a negative reaction to that particular dogma.)

[musesfool]

I don't think we're disagreeing. I think Sam's motives were mostly good (I don't think the vengeance above all else is good, but it's always been part of him, even though he chose family over vengeance in Devil's Trap, this time he didn't), but I think in manipulating Sam, Ruby used his pride and his need for control and autonomy as much as she used is love for Dean against him. "You're the only one who can do this!" takes the fear he has of being something dangerous and different and turns it into a point of pride, for example. And Sam tends to think he knows best, that his way is the right way, much like his father. So she appealed to that in him, too, along with the whole "Dean won't/can't understand," etc.

I was finding it hard to invest in a storyline so powered by the conviction that Sam was already doomed a decade before he was born, no matter how he chose to live his life.Yeah, I find that problematic, as well, and I'm not sure that's actually what the show is telling us - it's saying we all have choices, and this time it