songs on painted shadows bleed on broken roads

[musesfool]

a short list of semi-random things I have been thinking about!

1. I try really hard not to judge people for liking things I think are badly done (as in written, mostly, or even decently written technically but with characterization I don't buy/like) or which squick me, but I fail. A lot. Even with a constant mantra of YMMV to remind me I shouldn't.

Comments

[executrix]

IMO the CSI theme song is "I Think We're Alone Now." It's the thumpety heart-beat bass that seals the deal.

[musesfool]

Heh. That works, too.

[rei_c]

...it's the stuff with the undercurrent of desperation/guilt/need - the knowledge of wrongness and the inability to not do it anyway - that gives me that queasy visceral thrill I am looking for...

Any chance there might be examples?

Which is to say, I went over and read Seperis' thoughts and the comments and discussion and I am way past bedtime but I find this a really fascinating topic. I don't know that I have much (or anything) to contribute but fascination. (I think I should watch the vid, definitely. Tomorrow.)

[musesfool]

Hmm... I can't think of any off the top of my head, possibly just because I read so much and things tend to blur after a while; I think it's something I saw more of in Firefly, or recall more strongly there, because with River, there are such clear consent issues to begin with, and yet she's often portrayed the driving force behind it. One of the things I do like about Sam/Dean is that they are in some senses equals - I don't generally buy pre-Stanford Wincest, for a variety of reasons - so a lot of the consent and power issues are equalized, though of course a good writer can still play with them, that push-pull of need/being needed/needing to be needed etc. that can easily be the catalyst for sexualizing the relationship, and the guilt that follows after, binding them tighter into it, along with all the external forces keeping everyone else out.

Just Two People Short of an Orgy

[executrix]

If you count deleted scenes as canon, though, the deleted scene from Our Mrs. Reynolds provides canon support for there being at least one vote for CSI. I don't know if there are equivalents for Heroes or SPN.

Re: Just Two People Short of an Orgy

[musesfool]

Heh. I've only watched Heroes as it aired, so I don't have the grasp of canon I do of the other two, but SPN has Dean selling his soul to bring Sam back from the dead, so there is a school of thought that says once you've done that, what's a little sex between brothers?

They also get mistaken for a couple not infrequently, and have played on that sometimes to get information. The writers know what fandom is doing and they provide occasional fanservice, but I don't think there is anything quite as textual as River declaring Book should marry her and Simon.

[jehnt]

Speaking of incest

I find incest in fic interesting because, like, I'm not bothered by it when it's twins, or Peter/Claire from Heroes (though I think that's mostly because I started shipping them before we knew they were related), and I'm CRAZY about Narnia incest (or any Narnia fic, really), but SPN incest really squicks me. That doesn't stop me from reading Wincest fic from authors I like (e.g., you), but I have different motivations for reading it than most fanfic I look at. I actually just posted a bit about this in my journal right before I saw your post, lol. And gah I can't wait until obsessive24 posts that vid because I bet it's awesome.

[musesfool]

Yeah, Peter/Claire was clearly set up as romantic before they had the big reveal, so it's never bothered me. I also don't really see Nathan/Peter at all, but then, I come from a New York Italian-American family, so the men kissing and being touchy isn't shocking to me.

I am also predisposed to hetcest more than brothercest, which is one barrier for me (hence my complete love of always-a-girl!Sam AUs), I think - there are several things that keep me from shipping Sam/Dean (not that I actually ship Simon/River or Eowyn/Eomer, but I find the relationships fascinating), but mostly it's this idea that they are everything to each other, so why not this, too? makes me so sad for them both. Like, I want Dean to have friends and kids and something that belongs to him, not Sam or John. Sam had his chance at Stanford at least; Dean hasn't had anything. And the isolation of it really makes me sad, too. They need more than just each other! And adding sex to their relationship really can eliminate the need for anyone else to ever enter their

[jehnt]

I also don't really see Nathan/Peter at all

lol, I just mentioned this in my reply to you in my journal. But yeah, Nathan and Peter don't even seem to me to have that close of a relationship. I've always thought their physical affection was more perfunctory than anything.

Like, I want Dean to have friends and kids and something that belongs to him, not Sam or John.

You know, it's interesting that you phrased it that exact way because on the show the one thing that DOES clearly belong to Dean and no one else is the car, and we see how he places a lot of meaning and importance on it and perhaps personifies it to some extent. And if it's not done in canon, it certainly is in the fic. So it's like Dean needs something external to latch onto but doesn't have the experience required to figure that out and do so and is using the car as a substitute? If that makes sense.

Sam had his chance at Stanford at least; Dean hasn't had anything.It made me so sad in "Skin" when the shapeshifter said something to Sam about Sam getting to go to

[musesfool]

because on the show the one thing that DOES clearly belong to Dean and no one else is the car

Well, yes, and no? Have you seen Dead Man's Blood yet? Clearly, the car becomes identified with Dean (see Sam's insistence it be saved in IMToD, even if it has only one working piece), but for Dean I think the car is also a symbol of his father (see the end of ELAC), as well as himself, and also of the life before the fire (they have the car in the pilot, after all, and it's home in a way no place else ever can be).

That car carries the weight of a lot of symbolism. *snerk*

Nathan and Peter don't even seem to me to have that close of a relationship. I've always thought their physical affection was more perfunctory than anything.

Yeah, I don't really see it? I mean, possibly after Nathan's all mangled and guilty over Peter's "death", something could happen? But they never struck me as particularly close in season 1, let alone close enough for things to be really weird and sexual.

"You don't think I had dreams of my own?" It broke my

[labseraph]

Ya know, you contributed a great deal to my continued music development by introducing me to artistes that I may otherwise never hear. So thank you, and also for your kind uploading. *blows Muse kisses*

However, I still don't get Springsteen. I know he's The Boss and all, but somehow, his brand of music just never appealed to me. Same with Bob Dylan. I can appreciate poetic lyric as the next person, but melody-wise, they never captured me. But that never stopped me from listening the Springsteen stuff you share and try to figure out the aesthetics. Guess I'm just unsophisticated.

Again, thank you. My ears thank you.

[musesfool]

I'm glad you enjoy the music!