I don't even know. Does that make any kind of sense at all?
TOTALLY. Which, really, is why a: I hate the term "self-indulgent" used to describe writing, even though I've used it, because I think it's a harmful, shaming term due to the negative connotations attached.
(I'm certain people think that my favorite story to write, Cops and Graverobbers, was self-indulgent, because it contained Aliens Make Them Do It style slash. But it was the most fun I've had writing in forever, and while, yes, in theory, it could have just been a casefile with no slash added, the whole casefile was constructed around the slashy parts. Ahem.)
I'm frequently tempted to run a Show Us Your Drawers challenge, where everyone gets a (shouldn't be needed) get out of shame free card and posts what the write for themselves instead of an audience.
But then I'd have to finish that huge Birthdayverse story where Gunn and Wes turn into soccer moms. Errm.
I hate the term "self-indulgent" used to describe writing, even though I've used it, because I think it's a harmful, shaming term due to the negative connotations attached.
*nod nod*
I'm frequently tempted to run a Show Us Your Drawers challenge, where everyone gets a (shouldn't be needed) get out of shame free card and posts what the write for themselves instead of an audience.
Hee! You totally should! Didn't sanj do something like that a couple of years ago
( ... )
Yeah, I think that does make sense. I think about this a lot, because I'm always a little bit surprised (then feel silly for being surprised) when I see somebody in fandom say, "I can't believe I read/wrote/enjoyed that! I'm so ashamed!" My response is always to think, "But this is fandom! Isn't not being ashamed the whole point of playing here?" In theory, at least, but it doesn't work out quite that way in practice
( ... )
"But this is fandom! Isn't not being ashamed the whole point of playing here?" In theory, at least, but it doesn't work out quite that way in practice.
Exactly. You'd think we wouldn't be, but there's always someone somewhere ready to wag a finger, if we aren't already doing it to ourselves.
I don't care if people validly hate stories about people turning into amusing animals, but I do care if they expect me to agree that we all ought to be above such silliness. (Not to mention, I think a lot of angsty, dark, overwrought stories about a character's True Suffering are a heck of a lot sillier than stories about somebody turning into a penguin.)
*nod nod*
I am more upset at being thought a bad writer in terms of technique than I am about someone thinking the premise is terrible, but I feel like just by writing crossovers or genderswap or whatever, I am being lumped in with the technically bad writers, and that bothers me, too.
Because yeah, I do it mostly to amuse myself, but when I post, I hope I'm amusing other people as well.
I am totally with you on this, I think. Fact is, everybody who feels the least bit insecure about their work (which is pretty much everybody) occasionally indulges in making oneself feel better by thinking, "well at least my stuff is better than ________." People who do this vocally and habitually annoy me a lot more than badfic writers, who are at least having the guts to let their own freak flags fly.
I totally support your sekrit incest baby fic and the impulse it comes from. In a way, I've tried to insulate myself from charges of being a sleazy guilty-pleasure-fic writer by announcing up front that's what I am and wearing it like a badge of pride--the first fanfic I ever posted was NC-17 Severus Snape/Witch-king of Angmar, after all. The challenge for me then is just to try to write my weird filth so well I can't be easily dismissed. :) That doesn't mean I don't get the occasional twinge of, "Is this just too silly, even for me?"
And the story works BECAUSE I love both sources and all the characters so much, BECAUSE I took the
( ... )
everybody who feels the least bit insecure about their work (which is pretty much everybody) occasionally indulges in making oneself feel better by thinking, "well at least my stuff is better than ________."
*nod nod*
I do try not to do it in public, though.
In a way, I've tried to insulate myself from charges of being a sleazy guilty-pleasure-fic writer by announcing up front that's what I am and wearing it like a badge of pride-
I've done similar things in the past - my fanfic motto is generally "Let them shag and be happy" and I always kind of disclaim my stories as romances, trying to let people know I'm aware of (and often embracing) the genre romance influences.
That's the only way crackfic works. And I'll take passionately playful crackfic over technically flawless canon-compliant fic with no energy and no surprises and no guts almost any day.Yeah, I think it becomes a matter of emotional investment and heart, and I sometimes think trying too hard to be perfect - which I am occasionally guilty of - can stifle whatever
( ... )
There are ways of doing it in public that are more acceptable than others. There some prejudices about some kinds of fic it's OK to embrace loud and long, and others not so OK. I've gone off on disdain for certain tropes and subgenres in public on occasion and imagine I will again - I just try very hard not to direct it at any particular writer, because that just hurts somebody's feelings for no good purpose.
I've done similar things in the past - my fanfic motto is generally "Let them shag and be happy" and I always kind of disclaim my stories as romances, trying to let people know I'm aware of (and often embracing) the genre romance influences.
Is "disclaim" the word you want here? It sounds to me like there's just a teeny bit of embarrassment about this here, like you've internalized some of the prejudice one hears from time to time that there's something shallow about wanting shagging and happy endings, and real artistes go for the angst to show the Reality That Human
( ... )
Is "disclaim" the word you want here? It sounds to me like there's just a teeny bit of embarrassment about this here, like you've internalized some of the prejudice one hears from time to time that there's something shallow about wanting shagging and happy endingsThat's exactly why I used it - because I did (probably do) still have some residual shame about that. Now I am more, whatever, people, I say let them shag and be happy, but when I first started out there was an especially strong vibe that we weren't writing romances - especially in slash, where there are a lot of people who think that just because they're writing about two men, they're not using many of the tropes of genre romance (which, you know as well as I, that having two men involved doesn't necessarily excise the heteronormativity of many romance tropes as they are written in fandom - the smaller/younger man often bottoms, there is a heavy emphasis on penetrative sex and characters' alleged preference for one position or another becomes their entrenched and designated
( ... )
I mean, this is fandom where absolutely nothing is supposed to be off-limits, and yet... Sometimes I put things off-limit to myself. I'm getting better at saying "shag it, I'll write it anyway", but there's still that niggling feeling. Wondering about how it will be received.
Comments 28
TOTALLY. Which, really, is why a: I hate the term "self-indulgent" used to describe writing, even though I've used it, because I think it's a harmful, shaming term due to the negative connotations attached.
(I'm certain people think that my favorite story to write, Cops and Graverobbers, was self-indulgent, because it contained Aliens Make Them Do It style slash. But it was the most fun I've had writing in forever, and while, yes, in theory, it could have just been a casefile with no slash added, the whole casefile was constructed around the slashy parts. Ahem.)
I'm frequently tempted to run a Show Us Your Drawers challenge, where everyone gets a (shouldn't be needed) get out of shame free card and posts what the write for themselves instead of an audience.
But then I'd have to finish that huge Birthdayverse story where Gunn and Wes turn into soccer moms. Errm.
Reply
*nod nod*
I'm frequently tempted to run a Show Us Your Drawers challenge, where everyone gets a (shouldn't be needed) get out of shame free card and posts what the write for themselves instead of an audience.
Hee! You totally should! Didn't sanj do something like that a couple of years ago ( ... )
Reply
Reply
Exactly. You'd think we wouldn't be, but there's always someone somewhere ready to wag a finger, if we aren't already doing it to ourselves.
I don't care if people validly hate stories about people turning into amusing animals, but I do care if they expect me to agree that we all ought to be above such silliness. (Not to mention, I think a lot of angsty, dark, overwrought stories about a character's True Suffering are a heck of a lot sillier than stories about somebody turning into a penguin.)
*nod nod*
I am more upset at being thought a bad writer in terms of technique than I am about someone thinking the premise is terrible, but I feel like just by writing crossovers or genderswap or whatever, I am being lumped in with the technically bad writers, and that bothers me, too.
Because yeah, I do it mostly to amuse myself, but when I post, I hope I'm amusing other people as well.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
I totally support your sekrit incest baby fic and the impulse it comes from. In a way, I've tried to insulate myself from charges of being a sleazy guilty-pleasure-fic writer by announcing up front that's what I am and wearing it like a badge of pride--the first fanfic I ever posted was NC-17 Severus Snape/Witch-king of Angmar, after all. The challenge for me then is just to try to write my weird filth so well I can't be easily dismissed. :) That doesn't mean I don't get the occasional twinge of, "Is this just too silly, even for me?"
And the story works BECAUSE I love both sources and all the characters so much, BECAUSE I took the ( ... )
Reply
*nod nod*
I do try not to do it in public, though.
In a way, I've tried to insulate myself from charges of being a sleazy guilty-pleasure-fic writer by announcing up front that's what I am and wearing it like a badge of pride-
I've done similar things in the past - my fanfic motto is generally "Let them shag and be happy" and I always kind of disclaim my stories as romances, trying to let people know I'm aware of (and often embracing) the genre romance influences.
That's the only way crackfic works. And I'll take passionately playful crackfic over technically flawless canon-compliant fic with no energy and no surprises and no guts almost any day.Yeah, I think it becomes a matter of emotional investment and heart, and I sometimes think trying too hard to be perfect - which I am occasionally guilty of - can stifle whatever ( ... )
Reply
I do try not to do it in public, though.
There are ways of doing it in public that are more acceptable than others. There some prejudices about some kinds of fic it's OK to embrace loud and long, and others not so OK. I've gone off on disdain for certain tropes and subgenres in public on occasion and imagine I will again - I just try very hard not to direct it at any particular writer, because that just hurts somebody's feelings for no good purpose.
I've done similar things in the past - my fanfic motto is generally "Let them shag and be happy" and I always kind of disclaim my stories as romances, trying to let people know I'm aware of (and often embracing) the genre romance influences.
Is "disclaim" the word you want here? It sounds to me like there's just a teeny bit of embarrassment about this here, like you've internalized some of the prejudice one hears from time to time that there's something shallow about wanting shagging and happy endings, and real artistes go for the angst to show the Reality That Human ( ... )
Reply
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
*nod nod*
That's exactly it.
Reply
Leave a comment