Meta: Lindsey as Lucifer (or, Has Sam Diddled The Devil?)

[mummyluvr314]

A meta on the liklihood of Lindsey the bartender being the Devil in disguise, and what it means for Sam as far letting Satan rape him in.

Comments

[meiou_set]

Mostly because I ship Sam/Lucifer

Lol, after 05x03 how can anyone not? ;) This is really interesting meta, what I'm mulling over is the disconnect between Jess basically saying that there is no forgiveness, no changing fate, but having Lindsey say the opposite.

The bloodshed line is provocative, definitely. I'm also working out in my head scenarios where Sam would say yes, so "avoiding bloodshed" is something to ponder, I guess.

[mummyluvr314]

Well, Jess was eventually revealed to Sam to be Lucifer. Lindsey, however, was not. Jess became unsympathetic the moment that Luci dropped the charade. Lindsey is still a friend/confidant. If Sam had a choice between the Jess in his dreams or the Lindsey from the bar, chances are he'd choose Lindsey.

The bloodshed line from Lindsey is definitely what piqued my interest here. It's too weird to not have some deeper meaning, right?

[meiou_set]

I'm not sure I can agree that Jess became sympathetic at the end with the reveal. I thought she was rather unsympathetic from the beginning of the ep when she says that he can't run from himself. At first, we are led to think that she's telling him he shouldn't run away from hunting, but then she starts talking about the darkness inside him and how he'll "never change." So even without knowing that Jess was Lucifer (I thought it was Sam's consciousness or something before the reveal) the distance between her attitude and Lindsey's attitude seemed stark to me.

[mummyluvr314]

It's late, and I don;'t think that sympathetic was the actual word I was looking for. School, work, and speech have fried my brain. I meant that she's someone that Sam trusts and loves, and he takes her word at a higher value than others because of his memories of her. She may not have been sympathetic (or whatever, it's almost 1 am) to us, but to Sam? To Sam, she was speaking the truth. What he sees as the truth. He's a horrible person and he's going to burn in Hell because he set the Devil free (and how did he not notice that the size and shape of her hand changed when she did? That's been bugging me).

[isaacsapphire]

Interesting idea. I too like the idea of Luci/Sam, so I'm similarly predisposed. I do have to say, I did twig several of the points you pick out here as being weird or "off" but didn't put it all together.

I don't suppose that her lack of complete flipping out when she started to get some idea what was going on couldn't go down on the list of reasons why she might be a demon?

[mummyluvr314]

I was going to put that down, but, it was, like, midnight as I was writing this, so I'll admit that some things might not jive, and some things might've been left out.

[isaacsapphire]

I was initially surprised that she didn't attempt to flee or flip out hard-core, then I remembered that the hunters had handcuffed her to the bar. Even so, she was not freaking out nearly enough.

[mummyluvr314]

ITA. I watched that scene looking for anything significant, but wide eyes and open-mouth breathing weren't enough to make a strong argument. I mean, she could have just been in shock.

Most everything else she did, however, is extrememly suspicious.

[marciaelena]

Lindsay couldn't have been Lucifer, for the simple fact that at the end of the episode Lucifer says something along the lines "Are you going to tell me where you are?"

So Lucifer can somehow reach Sam, presumably in his dreams, but he can't pinpoint Sam's location, thanks to the Enochian sigil carved into Sam's ribs.

[mummyluvr314]

I think I talked about that. How it's possible that a demon (presumably possessing Lindsey or anyone else in the town, as it was currently a bit of a hotbed of demonic activity) saw Sam as he was rolling into town or at the bar and let the Big Boss know where he is. And Luci chose to come to him in a dream as a version of Jess that fed off his greatest fears about himself, while being (in reality) someone who was more sympathetic to Sam's plight.

I'm just saying, if Sam is so important to Lucifer's plans, it would make sense for him to put some kind of bounty on his head.

[blackjedii]

I'll disagree because even though I think that there might be more to Lindsey than not (or at least the writers are playing with it - she was listed as POSSIBLY RECURRING); Lindsey was doing the exact opposite of what Lucifer wants.
With Jessica he was reinforcing Sam's darker views of himself - you get people killed, you got ME killed, there's something evil inside of you that can't be trusted; you shouldn't be around anyone. With Lindsey it was the exact opposite - you can change, you can share with me, you can be a good person if you can work at it.

[mummyluvr314]

This is true, but who is Sam likely to trust more in the end? Who is going to let himself grow closer to? The memory of a distant past who is telling him that he's evil, or a new beginning who tells him everything he wants to hear? Because, technically, what both Jess and Lindsey were saying was true: Sam has a darkness inside him, but forgiveness is nit unattainable. There would be no lie (Lucifer's promise) outside of the visual deception.

[nekosammy]

I've heard some speculation that Lindsey is God talking to Sam. She brings a message of hope and forgiveness. There was a scene cut out of the episode where Sam slept with Lindsey after he gets rid of the hunters. That means both God and the Devil want Sammy's body. Paradise now, baby. Hee.